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Welcome to the thoughtful entrepreneur Show. I'm Josh Elledge, founder and CEO of up my influence.com. We turn entrepreneurs into media celebrities, grow their authority, and help them build partnerships with top influencers. We believe that every person has a unique message that can positively impact the world. stick around to the end of the show, where I'll reveal how you can be our next guest on one of the fastest growing daily inspiration podcasts on the planet in 15 to 20 minutes. Let's go. Kevin Geary, you're the CEO of Digital Gravy and the founder of Digital Ambition.co. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Well, Kevin, before this interview, you and I got up to a reporter and start geeking out on all things marketing. And so you're paid advertising is a big part of what you do. Content is a big part of what you do. And and then email marketing is A big part of what you do. And I gotta be honest, like, I really like what you're saying. One thing that I'm not a big fan of is these really, really tight funnels, where and because I don't think they work, I think they're very expensive. And I think they sound great for the person that's selling you their training or whatever it is not naming names, but one funnel away, baby. And so, you know, the idea is that all you have to do is just put a webinar registration page in front of a bunch of people and then sell them into your $2,000 course. And then all your wildest dreams come true. The reality is, it's, I think that audiences have become over the past number of years pretty resistant to being sold to pretty quickly, right. And so, so I would love for you to, I'm going to, I'm going to hand the mic over to you. Feel free to step in front of the podium here. Yeah. And give your stage The Union on digital advertising works well today. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Gentlemen, Kevin. Gary. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. Alright. So let's start with the concept of not running offers to people who have never heard about you before. And I think that's where, where a lot of people go wrong. That's their default. They're like, hey, I need to get a return on my ad spend right away. I need people to buy stuff, or I need email subscribers or webinar registrations. If I'm going to put money in, I want to get money out. And so they go with this approach. And they start running these ads, people have never heard about them before. And they get crickets or they get really expensive cost per click or cost per lead, whatever. And they decide, oh, this doesn't work for me. Usually what they decide is this doesn't work for my industry or my business. Like I'm a I'm a unique snowflake, and I'm the only one Facebook ads doesn't work for them. So what I'd recommend that people do is just press pause and take a longer game approach and really go back To the fundamentals, and I teach the fundamentals of, of traffic and exposure and what I call the five rings of reach and conversion. So there's this first ring, which is the biggest ring. That's people who are unaware of your brand. They don't know you exist. They don't know what you do. And and this is people in your target market. I'm not talking about the entire world. I'm talking about people in your target market. They don't know you. They don't like you. They don't trust you yet, right? Yeah. So if we're going to go after that ring, which is an important ring to go after, if you're going to build a business, like the more people know about you, the better off you're going to be eventually, right? So we go after that ring, what do we go after them with, we don't go after them with offers, we don't go after them with anything that's asking them to convert. And by the way, on Facebook, when you're bidding and you're trying to get people to engage. The most expensive stuff is asking Facebook to take this visitor who's on Facebook and take them off of Facebook. That's expensive, right? It's actually very inexpensive to keep them on Facebook and just show them things. And so let's take the concept of a video you have a video that I is like what I call power content on one of your core topics, something really valuable, engaging, entertaining, something that you want to get in front of a lot of people, if you just take that video and just say, All right, here's the target audiences I want to go after the people who are you know, it's either interest based or it's, I'm targeting these specific brands are pages. And I put that video in front of people and I just say Facebook, just put this in front of people who will watch it, I don't want them to click on it. I don't want to do anything. I just wanted to watch it. Right. And there's actually a video views ad type in the Facebook ads dashboard you can choose which is exactly that. It's telling Facebook, buying people who will watch this video and you pay and it's very inexpensive. We're talking about like my goal for through plays is 10 cents or less per through play. And all I want is people to watch that video. All right. Now what I do on the back end is I go into my custom audiences and I also tell Facebook, all right, anybody who watches 10 seconds of this video, I want you to put them in this bucket. Anybody who watches 25% of that video on should put them in this bucket over here, the second bucket, and anybody who watches 75% or more of this video entrepreneur in the third bucket. Now the 10 second bucket, that's the bucket where I'm going to use to turn off that video. So I'm going to exclude that audience from the video. So once somebody watched 10 sec, I don't want to bombard them with the same video over and over and over again. So if anybody has watched 1010 seconds of the video, they just get taken out of the ad. Yeah, they're not going to see the video anymore, that people have watched 25%. And you can determine how complicated you want to make this or aggressive you want to be. I tend to just say 25% if they sat around a watch 25% of my seven or eight minute video, they're fairly engaged, right? That's kind of the right person. That's who I'm looking for. So now I'm going to start retargeting them with other ads, you have to decide is how how long do I need to retarget them for before I can really ask them for something. Now the retargeting side of things is very, very inexpensive to do. All right, so you're going to cut your cost down really well with a campaign like this, but what I ask people to think about doing is creating a web like a spider web, right? Yeah, they, they run into it, which is that very first video they ever saw. And now they're stuck in it and they can't get out of it. So in other words, they're going to start seeing other types of content from me. Other videos, maybe Facebook Lives that I did, maybe blog posts that I've published, all these are retargeting ads running, right? And the goal is to hit them over the course of 21 to 30 days, like we know people don't convert right away, they have to be touching six, seven times, it's absolutely the course of weeks, right? So we want to capture them in this web and keep them there for that 21 to 30 days and just continue to feed them content. Now inside of the Kaizen Yeah, inside of the content. There are going to be pathways on to our email list or pathways onto an initial low level purchase of some sort. But it's not going to be like by myself, by myself, by myself, convert to my thing convert to my thing. It's going to be nurturing It's going to be know, like and trust. And you know, I'll give you an example. There's a, maybe a Facebook Live video, or in the video you mentioned, there's a cheat sheet. And if people want the cheat sheet they can comment below. So now you're creating engagement on the post, right? You're asking people to raise their hand and say, hey, I want that cheat sheet, you're getting in there dm saying, Hey, here's where you can grab the cheat sheet, you're starting conversations, all this stuff is happening, automated, it's an automated web that Facebook is creating for you. And then you're creating the conversions out of that. And if along the way, somebody goes to your sales page, because you link to it, or they get to your checkout page, because they went to your website to learn more about what you do. And then they went to the sales page. And then now you can start getting more aggressive. So they made it to the checkout. Now they're probably going to start seeing some ads that are like, Hey, come on back at you know, we noticed you didn't complete the checkout. Let's go ahead and get signed up or whatever you're selling, right? Yeah. But the web starts to get tighter and tighter on them, the more they show interest and actually buying from you.
Yeah, right. Right. So And so you know if you're using good software to I mean you can track stuff like they were on this page but they didn't grab the cheat sheet and so that's how we've identified that segment and so we can show a specific message to those people and and what are good what's good software that can get that granular
so I for email marketing software and what's called an E CRM, I use drip I found that drip I've used pretty much all of them by the way. Drip I found is the most user friendly almost Yeah. also has the most features without being overly complicated everybody knows the confusion soft line right? You don't want an email system where you're spending so much time figuring out the system moving stuff around and not good so drip super easy, but it has the functionality right where
and it does integrate with Facebook ads so you can trigger certain absolutely does that that's great
for important so and what a lot of people don't know debt is how do we get people in some of these custom audiences? Right? Well, you can use the pixel for sure. But what I do is I use drip so that you can create an automated workflow where if somebody clicks a link in one of your emails, they can be put in a custom audience based on that, right? If they visit my sales page drip can not only put them in a Facebook custom audience based on that, but it can also send me an email notification, like we were talking about before we recorded right I set up a system where when somebody visits my checkout page, I get a notification so that I can do some manual outreach to them that other people frankly, aren't taking the time or energy to do that converts like crazy.
Now, yeah, it sounds like a bit of work having to get all this setup, right.
It is a bit of work to get it set up right but once it's set up, it runs a it's a component based system where let's say you and your retargeting web, maybe you have 10 or 11 retargeting ads that are different pieces of content that you're putting in front of people Guess what? Everything is component based. So if one piece like maybe you have one live video that you were like this belongs in the web, but nobody engages with it, it's not working well, you can just pull it out and put another component in its place. And so you can tailor it until it's converting like crazy. Every piece is there for a specific reason, because it's working to build that know I can trust and to create the conversions over the 21 to 30 day period. Now you say it sounds like a lot of work that set up but here's what most people are doing. Most people are putting, even if they go the just brand awareness at route, right, they're not running a conversion ad. They're just here's my video, watch it come to my website, whatever. People come to the website, they poke around, they leave. Nothing happens after that. They forget about you. They're gone. Your chances of ever converting them gone getting them back to your website, likely gone, right? And if you're putting hard offers in front of people right after they've met you, a lot of those people also Gone cuz they don't like that. They're like, well, I don't I barely even know you why you asked me to buy stuff, right? Yeah, you will the more you nurture people, they like to see your next ad. It's not like by convert by convert. It's like oh my god and more valuable information that I need. Right. And so that's the kind of situation you want to create over and over and over again.
Yeah. So they have to send enough buying signals to eat. No, it's really this when you think if this is not that hard, right? It's like, you know, dating, you know, you know, well, at least I hope you know, when it would be appropriate to go for the kiss. Yes. Yeah. Oh, and hopefully you're not making that mistake too early. Because otherwise is going to be pretty awkward. And I think it's going to mean an early end to the date. So marketers Listen to me. It's the same thing. Quit going for the kiss too early.
Yes. Yeah. And, and like a shoe store, right? You somebody walks into your shoe store. there's a there's a couple different ways I use this analogy one is, you know, and the people that overcomplicate things like somebody is ready to buy, and you're putting them through too many hoops. Like there's a lot of marketers out there who insist on like, oh, I've got a 14 day email sequence because this is what people told me I needed and on and somebody comes in is actually ready to buy. And it would be like somebody walking into a shoe store and the salesman's like, Whoa, before you I want you to put that back you need to go through our 14 day email sequence or other stuff, right? Like you don't want to do that. But you also don't want to take somebody who's just browsing around getting their face like want these want these want these a try. These aren't these aren't even their their size. They're not even their style your stuff in their face, right. So it's a it's a fine balance. Going back to the five rings of reaching conversion. Look, it's going from unaware to aware from aware to your tribe. And that's what the retargeting web does is it brings them into your tribe because they've seen you six, seven times you're like, do I like this guy? I like this girl. I want to hear more from that person starting to become part of your tribe, and we're converting them at To an email list at that point or to just the conversation, dm, what have you. And then we want them to be a core buyer. So after they're in your tribe, that's when you can start focusing on like, Alright, are you serious, like, here's my products and services, let's get to the next level. And then after they become a core buyer, we're trying to get them to become a raving fan, somebody that you know, that as someone that gives us reviews and, and testimonials and all this stuff. So thinking along those lines, we want to make sure that we're not pushing people too fast from ring to ring to ring. But we also don't want to take forever to go from ring to ring to Ria in that bound
pseudoscience page, that's information you want to know. And in fact, Kevin, you said, you know, one thing that you had mentioned before we clicked record is that if someone visits your page, your sales page or your checkout page, what do you do?
Yeah, so I have drip, send me a notification. And it said, and by the way, this is for people who are already in my drip account. It doesn't work for random visitors. But if somebody is already in my drip accounts and they visit my checkout page, drip sends me a notification. And it says, Hey, Susie, and this is her email address. And this is her website URL, she just visited your checkout page and didn't buy. Now I set it to 24 hours. Because sometimes people will go to a checkout page, they won't buy it, they'll come back three hours later and buy, maybe they were at work or whatever, right? So I give them a period of time to actually make the conversion. Now what most people do, I mean, this isn't, you know, cart abandonment is nothing new. But what most people do is they just send some generic email, hey, you abandoned your card, here's 25% off, come back and buy from us. That's not what I write. I get on my cell phone and I record a personal video to that person. He's not what I know about them. If I have their website URL, I already went and looked at their website, I saw some stuff that was wrong with it or needs to be improved or what have you. And I record a 62nd video very personal saying that person's name saying that person's website URL, letting them know this is not a generic video, right? I recorded this just for you. And I invite them to whatever I think is a call to action. So either messaging me back and then During one of my questions, or sometimes I'll encourage them to go back and purchase. Because here's another thing that we didn't talk about ahead of time. What I also have drip do is count the number of times they visited the sales page. Every time they go to the sales page, a custom field in drip gets updated. And so if I go to that person's profile and it says, Hey, this person has been selfish seven times right? And they just visit the checkout page that's different than somebody only been there once. If somebody just been there once I invite them into a conversation if they've been there seven times I actually tell them like Hey, I know you've been the sales page many many many times right? Yeah, I want you to take this next step let's get serious about it if there's something holding you back let me know but I get a little more aggressive with the call to action right Yeah, sure. And
so information for video emails like I use bom bom you What's a platform you use the you BB calm dub calm? Yeah. Listen, I honestly think that if you do any kind of online sales or you're taught you're having sales conversations and you've got follow up, I honestly video emails I think are Just way, way, way more effective than just sending generic text emails. I've seen the results myself.
Yeah, for sure. When you when somebody gets a personal video for you, first of all, that doesn't happen hardly anywhere else, right? I know, I've had so many people just by because they were they were like, wow, this is the level of like personalization you have. And I'm, you know, a lot of times I'm selling people into a membership community or what have that's exactly what they're looking for. Right? Yeah, your number right there, right. They want that personal attention. And as a business owner, who cares? And I say this all the time, people would rather buy from people, not brands. So if your whole system is set up to be nameless, faceless, automated emails, No wonder you're struggling with conversion rates. When people start talking to other people. suddenly they're like, Oh, yeah, I kind of like I want to I want to buy from you. Right. So think about that as well, that personal, personalized aspect. And then think about conversations more than you think about conversions because on the internet conversations in Equal money. And with people's email systems I see this all the time. It's just here's a link go by here's the link go by, here's a link go by, you're never in a conversation with this person. You're acting that way by based on your copywriting ability, which most people's copywriting ability isn't as good as they necessarily think it is. But if you instead of saying Click here to buy, just say, Hey, this is interesting, hit me back, right and that person will reply to you and now you're in a conversation and you can actually sell the person versus trying to have your copy do all the work
now, well. Well, Kevin, you're a smart dude. I like you. I want to have you back. I because I want to talk about email. I want to talk a little bit more about email marketing, specifically lead magnets, that sort of thing. If that'd be all right, and you're so you're up just outside of Atlanta. Is that right? Yes. Yeah, I've we've, we've done we have several clients around in and around Atlanta. Matter of fact, Alpharetta is a place we get to pretty commonly so great, great, great heart of the country. Yeah, yeah. Love, love to get Back up there. Awesome. Well, Kevin, Gary, how do people get connected with you, your and because if you if you liked what Kevin was sharing, speaking now to the person who's listening to us, that's been eavesdropping on our conversation this whole time, Kevin. And and so you're a smart Dude, what are some ways that people can get engaged? I see you've got the hive as well, which is what looks kind of cool.
Yeah, so if they want the education, we'll just make this easy for them. If they want to learn how to do this stuff for themselves, then go to digital ambition co if they want somebody to just do this stuff for them, go to digital gravy co so I have an agency digital gravy. And then I have an education platform digital ambition. So that's I'll let people decide if they want to learn and do it themselves. Go to digital ambition co if they want somebody to just do this for them, go to digital gravy, co it'll all work out. Just hit me up. Obviously, I'm into conversations and talking to people so you can message me on social media, send me an email through the site, whatever. I'm going to respond to you personally and we'll get to work.
Kevin, it has been awesome having you on. Again, you're the founder of digital ambition CO and the CEO of digital gravy. co thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to the thoughtful entrepreneur show. If you are a thoughtful business owner or professional who would like to be on this daily program, please visit up my influence.com slash ghast that we've got something out of this interview. Would you share this episode on social media just to a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or posted on the socials? A few do that tag us with the hashtag up my influence? Each month we scour Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. We pick one winner from each platform and you get crowned king or queen of that social media now what do you win? We're going to promote you and your business to over one Hundred 20,000 social media fans totally free. Now, can you also hook us up now in your podcast player right now, please give us a thumbs up or a rating and review. We promise to read it all and take action. We believe that every person has a message that can positively impact the world. Your feedback helps us fulfill that mission. While you're at it, hit that subscribe button. You know why tomorrow? That's right, seven days a week, you are going to be inspired and motivated to succeed 15 minutes a day. And my name is Josh Elledge. Let's connect on the socials. You'll find all the stuff we're doing at up my influence.com Thanks for listening and thank you for being a part of the thoughtful entrepreneur movement.