Speaker 1 (00:00:05) - Hey there, thoughtful listener. Are you looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers and clients? Well, I've had private conversations with over 2000 leaders asking them where their best business comes from. I've got a free video you can watch with no opt in required, where I'll share the exact steps necessary to be 100% inbound in your industry over the next 6 to 8 months, with no spam, no ads, and no sales. What I teach has worked for me for over 15 years, and has helped me create eight figures in revenue for my own companies. Just head to up my influence. Com and watch my free class on how to create endless high ticket sales appointments. Also, don't forget the thoughtful entrepreneur is always looking for great guests. Go to up my influence. Com and click on podcast. I'd love to have you. With us right now. It is the one the only Dave Jackson longtime friend. Dave, you are a podcast consultant. You're the founder of School of Podcasting. you You work with both entrepreneurs and business leaders to launch successful podcasting, helping with best practices, doing it well.

Speaker 1 (00:01:25) - But Dave, your website is School of Podcasting. Com Dave, thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 2 (00:01:30) - Oh, thanks for having me. Always great to hang out with you.

Speaker 1 (00:01:33) - We've connected and and I think probably maybe the first podcast movement or Vers pod fest. I think maybe we initially connected. so I just I appreciate your longevity in the space and, and just, you know, again, anyone who is not a total geek in the world of podcasting, Dave, I would say in terms of like top five just givers and very active voices within the space, you're you're clearly in that top five and you've always been in that top five. so just anyone who's not familiar with the the nerd table in podcasting. Dave, you're you're at the head. So just thank you so much for being on the show.

Speaker 2 (00:02:13) - Oh, dude, it's, again, it's an honor and a pleasure. And, Yeah, if you don't quit, you know, eventually, you know, everybody else quits and you're left and they're like, well, he must be the guy.

Speaker 2 (00:02:22) - He's the only one here. So I love it.

Speaker 1 (00:02:25) - So, Dave, give me an overview of of the work you do. What is the school of podcasting? Who do you serve and what does that typically look like?

Speaker 2 (00:02:31) - Yeah, it's really I always say it's anybody with passion and a message to get out there, because it starts with courses from everything from planning your podcast to, you know, the typical how to build a website, what gear, how to get to Apple and Spotify and that kind of stuff. And then I started a couple of years ago just offering unlimited one on one consulting and people go, you can't do that. And I go, oh, I know it doesn't scale. I go, I'm going to jump off that bridge when I get to it because I love to coach. My background is in teaching, and I was spending a lot of time trying to get people to hire me as a consultant, which I still do. But I was like, you know, I have people right in front of me that are giving me money.

Speaker 2 (00:03:07) - Why not just, you know, coach these people? So I raised my price a bit and offered that. But the biggest thing I love is it has a really thriving online community of everything from pastors to comedy writers to accountants to, you know, a wide range of people. And so we're all networking with each other and critiquing each other's shows. And did you know this might be a better way to explain that kind of thing? So that's really the the school of podcasting in a nutshell.

Speaker 3 (00:03:32) - Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:03:33) - Well, Dave, give us maybe just your state of the Union quick, very quick version of the state of the Union for podcasting particularly, you know, just trends that you've observed. and why someone who has been considering starting a podcast might want to give it a little bit more consideration.

Speaker 2 (00:03:56) - Yeah. Well, it's the listener base has grown every year since 2005, so it's continuing to grow. And the beauty of it in terms of like, why should I do this? When you publish on a regular basis, you're seen as reliable.

Speaker 2 (00:04:10) - When you give great content that helps the audience, they like you when you can share a story that makes your point. So like when Muhammad Ali died, I talked about it on my show. But like, here are five things podcasters can learn from Muhammad Ali. And so I shared a little bit about I just love that dude. So when you do that, it just builds the you know know like and trust factor and And plus you're getting feedback from the audience which could be your potential customer. So that's really the the big thing. And it just it keeps growing. A lot of people now are expanding into YouTube. And for some people that make sense and for other people it doesn't. Because if you think about it, you're you're doing YouTube to help promote the podcast, but then you have to grow YouTube. So what are you doing to, you know, after a while, like, let's how about instead of going a mile wide and an inch deep, let's go, you know, a mile deep and an inch wide.

Speaker 2 (00:04:59) - Let's stick with the audio. Audio outperforms video about 10 to 1. And video has been an Apple podcast since 2006. So that's not the new so but all in all it's it's thriving. And you know, we have a lot of people from 2020 that started a podcast in the pandemic that have said, okay, that's enough of that. We did it for fun and they might be dying off a bit. But all in all, the whole industry is moving upward.

Speaker 1 (00:05:22) - Let's talk about intention just for a moment, because you had mentioned, you know, maybe someone's motivations or inclinations to start a podcast might be initially because they want to do it for fun. however, a lot of folks that you've worked with, obviously start a podcast, and they want to be intentional around the business behind that. They need to They need to be able to justify it. So, you know, when when they're about six months into their journey, we're going to need to see some payoffs. There's obviously there's a lot of emotional payoffs.

Speaker 1 (00:05:51) - You know, it's this feeling of significance knowing that we're making an impact. But but we also want to keep doing this. can you maybe share some thoughts on that, particularly in that more of that, you know, kind of entrepreneurial business world? how does a podcast drive business potentially.

Speaker 2 (00:06:11) - Yeah. So whatever industry you're in, you could just do a podcast that talks about the news that's happening in that industry and give your take on it and kind of get to show off your expertise. Oh, I've been doing this. I've been in this industry for X amount of years and things like that. And that just positions you as an expert, whether you, you know, been in it six months or six years. I used to do a weight loss show and I would start off and say, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a trainer. I'm just a person like you trying to lose weight in the basement. And I would get these insanely detailed, like my red blood count is this and that.

Speaker 2 (00:06:43) - Woody. I'm like, well, hold on, did you not hear? And I was like, why do I keep getting these? And it's like, oh, because I have a podcast. They must think I'm the expert. And even though I say at the very beginning, I'm just a person like you, so you are going to get that kind of authority just built in to that. And the other thing is, you can do a solo show that's going to grow your influence, but when you do an interview show, you grow your network and people always go, well, which one should I do? And I go both because there's there's no rule that says it has to be an interview show or it has to be a solo show. Do both. And I know, my network has grown through, you know, being on podcasts and meeting people and things like that. And that's then led to, opportunities to speak, which led to more opportunities, which led to more relationships with people.

Speaker 2 (00:07:32) - So it's kind of this cycle, you start off, it's a great way to meet millions of people without meeting millions of people. But you start your podcast that leads to opportunities, and those opportunities lead the relationships which lead to more opportunities. And then your your podcast is just a basically a big, giant digital resume.

Speaker 3 (00:07:50) - Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:07:51) - Dave, and I'm sure there's likely some common pitfalls that you see among aspiring podcasts, particularly again, in in more of that, you know, maybe existing business owner.

Speaker 3 (00:08:03) - World.

Speaker 1 (00:08:04) - What might be some of those very common trip tripwires or say, you know, where they trip up and, and, you know, it ends up just being, and then a very frustrating and, lackluster experience for them in terms of starting and operating a podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:08:22) - Yeah. If it's for a business, I always say take those questions that you're like, oh, if I have to answer that again, like mine is, what's the best microphone under 100 bucks? I answer that every day.

Speaker 2 (00:08:31) - Samsung Q2 you but you know people want that content. So start with the the frequently asked questions. That's always a good one. But one of the biggest mistakes I hear is nobody's asking for, you know, here's my lead magnet, here's that. Or I had a friend of mine and I said, how's your podcast doing? She'd been doing about six months. She goes, I'm not getting any like speaking gigs. And I go, I've listed almost every one of your episodes. I've never heard you mention that. And she said, well, I, I don't want to feel salesy. And I said, look, all you have to do is say, I was talking to a bunch of kids, high school kids in the Bronx last week, and this young man came up to me and asked me this question. I thought that'd be a good topic for a podcast. I go, there you go. You just let your audience know you speak to high school kids. It doesn't have to be this, you know, this Sunday, Sunday, Sunday kind of advertisement in it.

Speaker 2 (00:09:17) - But you do have to ask, and I'm guilty of that. I think we all kind of get a little weird when we start to promote ourselves. And I have a I had written a book and I was talking to something and about something and mentioned it to my co-host, and he goes, you have a book? And I was like, oh man, physician, heal thyself. I was like, yeah, I have. It's been out for about a month and a half. And he's like, I've never heard you talk about it. So you that's a big mistake. You have to talk about it and I, I get it. We don't want to turn into a sham while commercial, but yeah. But on the other hand you you have to let people know what you do. Otherwise they're not going to hire you or buy your stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:09:50) - Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:09:51) - Dave, share with us, how you work. Like what? What does consulting look like? Are you available to consult, or does, is that all kind of just facilitated through School of Podcasting? By the way, your website, is School of podcasting.com, but I'd love to learn more about what engagement with you looks like.

Speaker 2 (00:10:11) - Yeah, so you can, like I say, I offer consulting through the school of podcasting, but some people just hate. Like I don't want to join a monthly thing. So I'm like, well, fine, I you can I have a schedule there where you can hire me. And the biggest thing I ask is, why are you doing this? Because if you don't get your why, you're going to burn out. Who is it for? And you can't say women because there's a big difference between a 22 year old woman and a 46 year old woman. Like, who is it? And then the hard part of podcasting is figuring out when you overlay those, the who and the the why. Okay, what can I talk about that's going to entertain or educate or somehow keep those people tuned into you like I need to address the who, but I can't just talk about French toast recipes and cat videos. I mean, that might be what they want to talk about, but what can I talk about that affects me and the why? How can I get them to to get to my why? Because I've had people have somebody right now that's a client.

Speaker 2 (00:11:06) - And I said, I want your website, I can't hire you. Like, how am I supposed to hire you as a coach if there's no and the same thing? Well, it's, you know, I'm not sure what pricing. I go start somewhere and, you know, if you're not charging enough, move it up. You know, but that's that's really it. And basically, I mean, I'll give you an example. About three months ago, I changed the tagline on my show, and a member of the School of Podcasting said, Dave, do you realize there's a typo in your show? And I go, well, which one? I have a couple. And long story short, I had a typo in my tagline and I completely missed it. So a lot of the stuff I see, it's like, oh, do you realize you're using Wix for your website? Well, when you use Wix is Wix RSS tool, it imports them into Wix. So anybody that listens on your website, you're not going to get that counted as a download.

Speaker 2 (00:11:54) - So there's all sorts of little things like that. And then in some cases, a lot of it is helping people get over the mental hurdle. It's not the technology, it's not the, you know, they've got the content, but they're convinced nobody's going to listen to them. And so a lot of it is just being that dad in the pool that's saying, jump, I will catch you. It's honest. So that's kind of what it is in a nutshell.

Speaker 1 (00:12:15) - And why is that so valuable? If you think about the psychology of an aspiring podcaster.

Speaker 2 (00:12:23) - I think a lot of it is great. Content comes when you're somewhat comfortable behind the mic, when you're, you know, what you're saying has value and things like that. But you you have that imposter syndrome. There's a great documentary on Netflix about Garth Brooks, and he's playing Central Park in New York City, and he's absolutely convinced himself that nobody's going to show up to hear some country boy in the big city. And his road manager comes in and goes, Garth, I got news.

Speaker 2 (00:12:52) - And he's like, there's nobody here, right? He goes, no, Garth. 20 minutes ago, they had to move the barricades because there's 800,000 people here. And. And Garth Brooks goes, you're telling me there's 800,000 people here? And he goes, no, Garth, I'm telling you, there are 800,000 people here 20 minutes ago. And by the time the concert went off, it was almost a million people. And so we're just convinced that nobody's going to listen and we're going to look stupid. And I'm like, well, it's not radio, it's not live. You can edit out anything you say. That might be stupid, right? And you can do it again. And so it's just one of those things where, you know, as you get more comfortable behind the mic and how do you get comfortable tying your shoes or driving a car? You got to do it. And so that first episode is always going to kind of make you cringe. Yeah. But by the time you get to the 10th one, it's better.

Speaker 2 (00:13:39) - And by the time you get to the 20th one, you know? And that's where I had a friend of mine that, was an airline. He was a he flown in the Air Force. He was a keynote speaker and had a book. I'm like, okay, you got courage and content. What's stopping you from doing a podcast? And again, his military background, he was afraid of looking stupid. And he sent me his first episode. I go, this is a really great story, but it's really obvious you're reading that. And I said, go back and just add a little voice inflection, set it back and go, you know what? Only because I'm listening for it, I go, I can still tell you're reading it. He's like, hold on. He sent it back and I said, this is perfect. He goes, yeah, I'm not reading it anymore. And I go, maybe that's your workflow. I go, some people can read a script, some people can't, you know? And he's having a blast now and it's growing his business and he's connecting with other pilots.

Speaker 2 (00:14:23) - So he's having a blast to, you know, talking about the good old days and the, you know, K 97 plane and whatever. But he's having a blast.

Speaker 1 (00:14:31) - And there's no reason that this should not be fun as well. Because again, you know, I think one of the early pieces of advice, and you already shared this at the beginning of our conversation, is a podcast can be about whatever you want it to be. And the beauty of podcasting is there is an audience for about anything that you want to create. you know, show growth, though I think is probably one of the biggest things that I hear is, is is a common concern among both aspiring and existing podcasters. Dave, before we talk a little bit, maybe about how school of podcasting specifically can help them with that and other areas, you know, that that are likely going to come up for you as, as a podcaster. what do you see? Obviously, there are way more shows today than than there used to be, you know, five, ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (00:15:23) - But but how do we break through and connect and connect with and grow those audiences?

Speaker 2 (00:15:29) - Yeah, it really starts with and I mean crystal clear, knowing who your audience is, because when you put out an episode and they're like, are you reading my diary? How did you know? I was just thinking about this kind of stuff? That's the stuff. And birds of a feather flock together. And so if you've given them great content and it's delivered in a way that's not annoying, and at the end of it you go like, hey, do you know anybody else that would like this show? If you, if you don't mind, it's kind of a win win. If you share this with your friend, they're going to think you're great because you just shared this awesome content. And I get to grow my audience, and people have a hard time doing that. But that's really the key. It's it starts off with great content and then delivery because you can have great content. But if you're using your building laptop microphone and you're, you know, there's just ways to and likewise, you can have the world's best studio.

Speaker 2 (00:16:21) - But if you don't have the content, it's just me, you know. And so a lot of people, when the show isn't growing, they immediately jump to gear. And right here I'm holding up a Samsung Q to you, it's $60. This is a $200 microphone. There's not a whole lot of difference. You know what I mean. And so they start diving into gear and then they maybe I need to do video or maybe I need to do this and that. And I'm like, well, let's go back. And I ask people all the time, well, when was the last time you polled your audience? And they're like, what do you mean? I go, have you ever done a survey for your audience? And you're like, well, no. I'm like, well, that's the first place to start. Like, let's find out. You know, there are, you know, if it's a, a fashion company or whatever, they're always people that do some sort of dress rehearsal and go, what do you think of these? Oh, well, we're not going to use that for the fall lineup or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (00:17:11) - Ron Howard has won multiple Oscars and Emmys. He still, when he puts out a new movie, has to sit in a theater with people because he knows when they're supposed to laugh and cry and gasp. And if they're not getting the right reaction, it's back to the editing booth. So that's really one of the first thing you want to do. I interviewed Jack from the Darknet Diaries, and he said he spent about a couple of months just here. Listen to this. Did you listen to it all the way? If not, why not? How likely are you to share this with a friend on a scale from 1 to 10? And he said, if I got a seven, I was back in the editing booth because once he got it right, he'd go to his audience and say, hey, if you know somebody else who might like this, could you do me a favor and share it? And he goes, I was pretty confident they were going to because they just said they liked it.

Speaker 2 (00:17:55) - So that's really one of the big things where it starts is really making just not just great content, but like amazing content.

Speaker 1 (00:18:03) - If your website is School of Podcasting, you have another website too. Less people think that that's all you do. You do a lot in in the podcasting world, and I believe the website for that was it power of podcasting.

Speaker 2 (00:18:17) - Com yeah, that's one I have because I play in everything. Yeah. So I have different podcasts on different media hosts. That way if somebody goes, oh, I'm using Buzzsprout or I'm using Captivate or Libsyn or whatever, I can kind of go, oh, here's how you do that in this platform. And then there's links to my book and basically everything I do there. If you if you want to hire me to do some consulting, there's a link there for that as well.

Speaker 3 (00:18:40) - Excellent.

Speaker 1 (00:18:40) - That website once again is Power of podcasting.com if you want. And it's all it really is, is a link to everything that you're doing out in the world.

Speaker 1 (00:18:50) - Your primary website, School of podcasting.com. just really quick, Dave. school podcast, that's and you share just a bit about this, but when somebody goes to school of podcasting.com, what would you recommend they do if they're considering starting a podcast or you know, again, if they're kind of deciding whether or not this is a good fit for them, what would you recommend they do?

Speaker 2 (00:19:08) - Yeah. There's a button in the upper right hand corner you can sign up, and that comes, you know, if I put on my radio voice, not a seven day, not a 14 day, but a full 30 day money back guarantee. So if if you start this and on day 29, you're like, you know, I don't know. This isn't what I thought it was going to be. I'll be happy to refund your money. So that's the beauty of it.

Speaker 1 (00:19:28) - Dave Jackson, founder of School Podcasting, your podcast consultant also as well head of podcast education with Libsyn. Dave Jackson, it's been so great having you.

Speaker 1 (00:19:37) - Thank you so much for the conversation.

Speaker 2 (00:19:38) - Josh, thanks for having me, buddy. This is great.

Speaker 1 (00:19:46) - Thanks for listening to the Thoughtful Entrepreneur show. If you are a thoughtful business owner or professional who would like to be on this daily program, please visit up my influence. Com and click on podcast. We believe that every person has a message that can positively impact the world. We love our community who listens and shares our program every day. Together we are empowering one another as thoughtful leaders. And as I mentioned at the beginning of this program, if you're looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers, and clients, I have had private conversations with over 2000 leaders asking them where their best business comes from. I've got a free video that you can watch right now with no opt in or email required, where I'm going to share the exact steps necessary to be 100% inbound in your industry over the next 6 to 8 months, with no spam, no ads, and no sales. What I teach has worked for me for more than 15 years and has helped me create eight figures in revenue for my own companies.

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