AC Chris Joyce

#HACKED: The Challenge In Starting Up with Chris Joyce

Our guest for today is Chris Joyce, the CEO and founder of Gusher, a startup platform that focuses in successfully launching a company by using time equity. Gusher deals with companies in different industries whether it may be in media, health, technology, design, finance, and gaming.

The problem with most startup companies is that they don’t know where to begin. Normally, most of these companies would begin with money to start the company. Gusher believes that money isn’t the first thing that should be considered.

When really doing a startup, your number one barrier that you have to overcome is people. You don't need money or capital. What you need is people to go ahead and unlock your idea and bring it to life.

When you're dealing with a founder and creating startups and teams, there are the goals, the milestones, and the methodology. The processes that Gusher provides aims to help the entrepreneurs and the teams go through those stages. You have to go ahead and provide a certain amount of structure that enables that entrepreneur to go ahead and knock out those goals with the team. That's really what Gusher is all about.

We at Gusher believe that it’s all about the right timing at the right place and in the right moment in history. We think that demand is there, and we think it is going to take off. It is really just a matter of time and effort.

Aside from being the founder of Gusher, Chris is also the founder of 24 other companies in various industries. Some of these companies are Exert, Movy, Uzurp, Carebox, Upvice, and O' So Lo Foods.

This blog isn’t the end of it though. To know more about Chris Joyce and how to started Gusher, listen to the podcast found above and let me know what you think!

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Welcome back listeners.

I'd like to say I'm coming to you from the comfort of my couch. But unfortunately, I'm stuck in the bunker. Specifically, I'm stuck in the bunkers ventilation system. And it's always look so spacious and easy to crawl through in a spy movies, but it's pretty much all the lie. I've lost the feeling in my legs three hours ago. It's pins and needles and pain. Also, from my time in here, I determined that Josh has a massive pest control problem. See, so, somebody today, on the private side, I'm sitting straight down at Josh watched him watch cat videos for hours before our guests arrived. His name is Chris choice, co Usher. And another mastermind for Josh his plan, I'm sure OR starting. Here we go listeners.

All right, Chris, thank you so much for joining me in the Lair. How was your flight By the way,

my flight was amazing, Josh,

especially coming in, I apologize as I do with with all of my guests. As you know, I'm on this kind of this top secret Napoleon Hill project. And, you know, so I apologize for all the intense security, but I just know that, you know, as I've hand selected these these greatest minds on this subject, I just know that there would be utter chaos in the world if this information got out. And so it's really important that we kind of decide how we release this, just to make sure that we don't cause too much chaos in the world, you know, economies would, you know, imagine what would happen to economies if, if they had all of this,

they would crumble, but I just wonder if you know, putting on the blindfold went a little too far.

Yet, and and what you don't know, is it you know, we've got the men and black too, and they'll have you stare at a little stick pin too. And so that way, you'll have you'll have no memory of this. I'm good. And so, so So, Chris. So you're the founder and CEO of gusher. And Can Can you just so from your perspective, and I'm going to be taking notes here? What led you to gusher and then just go ahead. And for my notes sake here, kind of explain what gusher does. And we're not by the way, we're not talking about the candy gusher. Although those are delicious,

that's got yours. But yeah, sure. I guess you're itself I was born out of some monstrous partner failure. So make a long story short, I had what's called a land mine partner, when my partner is just like its name sounds is one of those things where you're stuck in the middle of nowhere, and you suddenly hear a click, and you realize you're on a landmine, and you kind of have almost two options. One, if you lift your leg, you're going to blow up and probably die. And the second is, you're stuck out in the middle of nowhere and you can't move your legs so you're going to have to survive for a while. And gusher was one of those scenarios where I had always done what are called time equity type of deals. But it was really out of desperation that we put gusher out there into the world to go ahead and give it a shot. And sure enough, it just started working.

So the concept behind gusher? Can you explain it in your words? Because it's like,

when I look at it,

I don't know how you're a I don't know how you've been able to pull this off, quite frankly, because it seems like one of those like, you know if this could only work in a perfect world, but it's so hard to connect these entities in a way where it actually can work. I'll let you explain it.

Yeah, sure. Go think of customers this way. But what I'm going to ask you one question, Josh, what's the biggest barrier that most people think is when it comes to starting a business? What's the number one barrier?

And you say money? Alright, because Well, I mean, I would say money, you know, because there's always so much that you want to do. And you know, in our world, I see so many I mean, pretty much everyone's bootstrapping in my war.

But if you're doing like a standard startup, what is that money used for? You know, the number one thing that that money is used for his people. So in openness and transparency, if you're really doing a startup, your number one barrier that you have to overcome is people will crush your solves that people come together. And they work for equity in the startup to bring it to life. It's as simple as that. So you don't need money, you don't need capital, what you need is people to go ahead and bring your idea to life to be able to unlock that idea, whatever it is inside your head, and actually bring it to market. If you have enough people, you have the right people, you can do it. If you don't, it doesn't come to life. It's as simple as that.

Yeah, and so movie or movie is what led you to this that was the land mine company.

No, actually, we had three companies simultaneously at the time movie was one of them. But movie was a really interesting company we had launched it it was launched at the same time, believe it or not, is Snapchat right before Snapchat. Yeah, in our timing was pretty much dead on we it was what's called an asynchronous video messaging platform, I send the video you send the video, etc. And that's the way it's done versus live. And what ends up happening is we had were a very large social networking company, which will remain anonymous, ended up actually compiling the software, sticking it into their messenger platform. And when you're dealing with investment and investors, that's one of those things that you have to disclose. During the process, you have to say, if something like that happens, otherwise, it's what's called a material omission. So you know, we had to disclose that and we knew it went and that being basically the death of the company. Because the second the big boys start adopting your technology and incorporate it into their platform. It's kind of almost in a way, bye, bye. And that's what happened with OV, although we had massive distribution. And our product was in 148 countries with a ton of users out there, we made the decision that really it was becoming a more of a commodity versus a standalone entity.

How can you compete? How can a company protect themselves from that,

that that's rough, because even right now, believe it or not, we were just granted yet patents on the technology in the last month, even though this was years ago. So we had filed all these different patents on the technology. And you think that patents actually afford you protection. But when you're dealing with larger entities, they look at as a cost of doing business just to violate the patent. So almost in a way you kind of just roll the dice. And hopefully you have market or branding advantages, that the technology in and of itself isn't your core technical advantage or could shouldn't be your core advantage that you're basing your whole business on. Because if you're basing it just upon a technology that can be reverse engineered or copied or something else, trust me, when I say this, it's going to be copied in some way shape, or fashion. So if anything, you have to have your brand stick, you have to have your core philosophy stick, you have to have your community sticky, to go ahead and be able to scale and do certain things, and not just make it about the technology technology is a commodity that decreases in value every day, you know, it doesn't increase in value, it's just the exact opposite. So it's very, very difficult to protect yourself, other than getting momentum and having the market behind you. That's your main protection, getting revenue, momentum and market behind you.

So there's no recourse through Patent and Trademark Office. But it's

one of those things that's going to take us 510 15 years, if anything. Yeah. So and we think that there is, you know, obviously big upside potential on that, and we're going to pursue it you know, as time goes on. But it's not one of those things that you can just go ahead and go in and instantly get a payoff. It's something that in and of itself has a tremendous cost patent litigation is insanely expensive to do. And it's a very long term play. It's something that can take a decade, it's something that doesn't happen overnight.

Certainly markets move a little bit faster than that, definitely.

And it's easy to generate, at least in our opinion, upside revenue and companies that it is to fight patent litigation or patent wars and go down that road, although we do go down that road.

So your past experience movie, Joyce, some of the other ones. How did that lead you to Gosh, sure that like what were what were your experiences, that you were like, gosh, darn it, I need to create this so that I can do my stuff. I mean, this is it was was got sure the outcome of what you needed. gusher was

really the outcome of totality almost in a way of every business I had done previously. So from the time that I was 18, in New York City, doing software type of deals, and then business brokerage, and then consumer goods, companies, medical device companies, every aspect of whatever I did, there was always a component of what's called time equity. So for example, we were just talking about patents. If I needed a patent attorney, I wouldn't actually Hey, a patent attorney, what I would be able to do is to convince and persuade a patent attorney to take a certain percentage equity in that company. So that may be an aspect of that company, I wouldn't have to come up with 1020 30,000. To do it, they may take half a 1% or 1%. Or if I needed, let's say, a landlord, because I needed that precise location for whatever reason it was, they would end up taking a piece of the company, they would share in the equity of the company. Or even if it was a supplier or a packaging designer or a machine maker, whatever it may be, they would always end up getting involved in the company so that you didn't have to have this large amount of capital to actually get that company launched. And you know, looking back at all the different businesses, it just kind of came together under gusher. What we saw with gusher, and we started testing out in the beginning stages really was the patterns are what allowed these people, anybody that just had an idea to be able to actually create that company. So we have all this knowledge, but how do you actually transmit that knowledge in a workable system, a workable methodology that allows really anyone from anywhere so long as they have an idea to go ahead and actually launch? Well, that's what took us the time and creating our different iterations. You know, we have it down pretty tightly now as to what works, what doesn't work, the steps that's required. And we take, you know, the founder, the entrepreneur through those steps. And so it was a follow it they have a very high level of success in terms of getting out the gates. Right now we're approximately 80% of the companies that are on gusher are end up getting what's called funded, meaning they're able to get that initial team, they're able to start getting that product and start bringing it to market and start getting traction. So that's pretty damn high.

So a company so let's say I have an idea. And I have a company explain to kind of break down the process. Oh, so just just so we know to be the goal here is that let's say you have a developer, you have somebody else that can bring valuable assets to accompany they've got skills, they've got resources. And so through gusher, they are able to get equity within a company if they invest those resources. So if I'm a developer, I say, look, you know, if I can help you build this thing you're going to give me 4% of the company is that is that kind of how it works?

Yeah, pretty much. But think of it this way, instead of thinking of it on an individual level. Think of it as a team level when you're doing a startup from ideation. So let's say you have an idea, okay, whatever that idea is, I don't care whether it's a software company, or whether it's a consumer type of good a CPG company, or even whether it's a service, something else out there, whatever it may be. Typically, in order to leapfrog your growth, you have a couple of roads of doing it, you can grind it out yourself and go linearly over years and, you know, save and start growing it. Or you can go ahead and utilize like gusher, where what you're able to do is have a team there from the beginning stage that has this knowledge that you need to have to go ahead and leap frog you're doing development. So instead of having, let's say a standard, you know, first generation product, you're able to leapfrog development and create something that is more sellable will be able to get more traction in the marketplace. So let's use that software, you know, company, as an example, if you have an idea for whatever it may be, right, you may need a front end developer, a back end developer, you may need a UI UX person, you may need graphics design, but also you need a marketing person, a marketing director, you may need a sales director for the sales validation. When you bring that whole team together with the idea stage at the beginning, the product, that initial product that's created is a lot better than if you were doing it on your own. And we're actually making a case that it'll actually be a lot better than if you were just paying people. And the reason is here, yeah,

because they have ownership,

right? They have ownership, they have a vested interest. So people are rowing in the same direction. And the product output is a hell of a lot better quality, because the only way that they actually get anything thing is if it works. And that's really the main point is that all these people are working on the same thing at the same time to bring it to life.

How are you through gosh, you're able to overcome the risk that a service provider, you know, because so let's say I'm a programmer, and, you know, I've got, you know, got a couple people on my team, they, you know, they want to get paid, I want to get paid. The typical model is that I do the work, and I get paid. Your PHP developer, I'm a PHP developer, I'm going to build this for you. And I think your gusher like, I would think that the fear would be, look, I could do all this work, and chances are, I'm not going to get anything because I don't I'm not convinced that these guys are gonna be able to go to market and and get their sales. How do you give them the developer that comfort?

Well, think of it this way? Okay. You said a main word there, you're not convinced. The whole point is if somebody comes in the gusher and let's say you're looking to possibly join or startup, if you're not getting Vince, that's the main thing right off the bat, you shouldn't be part of it. So that that's, that's number one, right. But here's what happens. This is what we see, there's typically some type of vested interest in the idea that a person that joins a start up the what we call the role applicants actually plays. So they have a tie to it in some way to utilize an extreme example, and not even extreme example, this is actually a real example. We have a company on our platform, that has to do with let's say, the mental health vertical. All right, very important stuff, something where there's crisis, there's a lot of people that are, let's say, committing suicide in a certain way. So this entrepreneur set out a doctor of psychology set out to go ahead and create a different type of mental health platform. Well guess who are the people that are getting involved in that deal. In terms of the developers in terms of the marketing side, in terms of the sales, the UI, UX design, almost all these people that are part of our team, have some tie into that some personal experience in either a family member, a friend themselves, whatever it may be, that have experienced a similar problem that she's trying to solve. So they get involved with ideas, typically, that they feel they can have impact on. But that also resonates, resonates in a personal way with them. So it's not like it's just a commodity type of transaction. It's something where people get involved in startups that they can have an impact on, but also that resonates with them in a personal way. If it doesn't, they shouldn't get involved, you know, but also a lot of people. Josh, when it comes to, you know, creating the team side is in you used an example, where they have a team already in place, let's say a company in place versus an individual, well, a lot of companies have excess capacity. A lot of individuals actually have excess capacity, just like your factory running the machine. So utilizing that excess capacity in a fully way is something that also is a way that they can participate with gusher actually monetize that.

So I've got remnant labor, I've got you know, so, so the, you know, the agency owner, the service provider, they say, look, you know, I can do this in the evening, I believe in this concept. Are there any success stories that you can point to? and say, Look, you know, these guys, you know, we brought together the right team, they got the product, it went to market, that 6% to 10%, whatever it is, I mean, they ended up making more than we're had they just charged, you know, 40 bucks an hour or whatever.

Sure. And right at this stage where we aren't, we're literally quite literally coming out of beta. So I wish I had those stories for you, right, the second what the stories that we have right now or that the entrepreneurs are getting their teams together. The entrepreneurs are in development stage, the entrepreneurs are just coming now out of development stage and about to hit the market. So check with in about three to six months, and you'll actually have some of those going on. One of the companies that actually is doing really well and about to hit the marketplace is a company called baru, BARU and baru is basically an augmented reality app that allows the custom manufacturer of furniture that basically feeds directly to the excess capacity of these woodworking manufacturing plants across the country. So Josh, let's say you were in New York City, right? Well, if you're in New York City, and you're going ahead and buying furniture, you're tight on space there, you need stuff that's custom versus going out to let's say, a standard furniture store for real, it's the way that it's done. So with their app with their platform, you can literally just pull up your phone, you can instantly sighs the furniture as it's fitting in your room, you actually see the imagery against whatever's there, you're able to order directly, and you're able to get custom made furniture delivered to your door in just a couple days at the same price as regular furniture. So it's an interesting model. It's taken advantage of excess capacity of all these would manufacturing plants across the globe, while bringing that cost savings and the customization and putting that power directly into consumers hands. That's something we think has huge upside potential.

Yeah, so I'm looking so right now I'm, I've got your website pulled out here. And so I'm looking at gusher CEO. And it's kind of fun looking at some of the roles that are available. I mean, there's copywriter, UX designer, graphic designer, Android developer, some interesting ones marketing director. I've got some software developer full stack. iOS developer.

Ever. What's that, again? mathematicians, food scientists, but yeah, years. biomedical people, you name it. Sure.

We even have

deals that's looking for a CEO.

Wow. Yep. Types. Yeah, that's, that's really fascinating. So from a supply and demand perspective, what are you finding doing? You have an in excess? As opposed to, you know, we could probably use a little, you know, a few more of x?

Sure. It's almost in a way it parallels anything almost in a way in the standard job market. So what you think there may be stuff that's tied on, like a lot of people say, oh, developers, it's such a growing market, it's tight to go ahead and hard and difficult to recruit. Or it may be able difficult to recruit SAS people in terms of the sales side of it, because there's such a demand for them? The answer is yes. And no, yes, initially, it may seem like that, all right. But what we found is, again, it depends on the actual startup and the way that it resonates. Because these people are looking for something different. So even though you may be an Android developer, even though you may be some sass sales Pro, that's popping a quarter million to a half a million a year doing whatever it may be. The fact the matter is, it's much different when you're actually an owner in that company. And I'm not talking about a couple options, that vest over five or 10 years, I'm talking about bringing something to life, we're you're able to help craft that based upon your vision, also from the beginning stage, and it has a much different appeal. So we really haven't had any difficulty going ahead and recruiting for whatever position it is even difficult positions like unity developers, which are notoriously very difficult to go ahead and find because they're in such high demand for gaming development. But you would also think maybe professional services, such as a food scientist would be kind of tough, it's not, because these people, again, are looking for something else that they can be part of that they can have impact and actually add value to their life in a great way. It's not just for the money, it's about the actual launch and creating something.

Wow. So for the Why do you think that? Most is loaded question why why do you think that most startup, maybe we kind of already talked about this, maybe maybe the issue is truly is they just aren't able to get off the ground DD? That's why most startups fail, is just they just don't, they just can't make it a reality.

I think there's two questions there here and hear me out on this. All right. There's startups that are already, let's say being created and as to why they fail. Let me call those funded startups. All right. Funded startups in the standard way with capital typically fail, in my opinion, because of two things. One, they broke a golden rule. And the golden rule on our side is that really, it has to be good idea first, money second, what they're able to go ahead and do is attract capital, typically into their company at an early stage based upon the idea of the seeding of it without actually proving it in the marketplace in any way, shape, or fashion, what's called vetting by the market. So that to us is really the number one deal killer. So something like gusher. And yes to toot my own horn, is that gusher itself is what's called a self betting platform. If you own an idea out there, and you're not able to attract a team, guess what, Josh? You're out right off the bat, it's something that you should go ahead and rework the idea. If you're able to go ahead and attract a team, guess what, you've already in a way vetted in the marketplace, because people are buying into your concept based upon the potential of what it is, versus just cutting you a check and running the numbers and saying, hopefully, one out of 10 of them works. Alright, that's number one. But number two, when it comes to companies that, let's say, aren't funded as to why they fail in the marketplace, the vast majority of companies, at least in terms of the idea stage, they never see the light of day, almost in a way because they have handcuffs that they can't figure out how to even get to square one. So I think it's more or less the failure of the idea to ever be given life is that it's not pursued, because the entrepreneur doesn't believe that they have a viable way of actually bringing it to life. And Josh, one in 700 entrepreneurs gets funded. That's it, we are winning. So what happens to those other 699? Right, we're all those ideas die. And that's the almost in a way, the travesty that we're looking to go ahead and change is we believe that human potential really needs to be unlocked. And that's why we created gusher, give them a shot at that at also and bringing their idea to life.

You know, I don't have a lot of experience in talking with investors seriously about attracting money for a venture. I've always been able to successfully bootstrap and kind of get over that. Most recently, we've had some opportunities that we wanted to take advantage of, to talk to a couple of investors and and as I look down that dark hallway, I didn't like what I saw. I mean, if you're talking about only one in 700 startups get funded, that gives someone who's looking to invest in startups. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of risk involved there. But you know, who's in the cat bird seat there? Oh, yeah. I feel like most startups kind of, you know, if they really need the money, their backs against the wall,

right? Absolutely. And here's the thing, but see you you've done two things, which are really important. When you bootstrapping, you do it that way, right off the bat, cash flow and marketing becomes the primary thing. So I've already met rule number one, and that's the good idea first money second, you've put it out there, you're generating cash, okay, once you're generating cash, that's the time to actually go after investors. But even still, what what the investors are able to do is they're able to segment down and do what's called de risking deals almost completely. So venture capitalists, most people think of venture capital says, okay, somebody walks into the room, this person's got a great idea, and they're suddenly going to fund them. And that idea comes to life. You know, that's a fairy tale, it occasionally happens, it rarely rarely happens. What typically happens is an entrepreneur creates a business, they get a proof of concept, they start getting traction in the marketplace, meaning they're getting some type of customers, they're seeing it go, they start getting rapid growth. And now the venture capitalists will come in after it's been de risked, or at least numbers has been lowered greatly to the point where they're not doing just, let's say, a research type of deal. That's an unknown. And most entrepreneurs don't realize that. So it's something we're almost in a way, especially at this stage of the internet. And where it is, you can go ahead and put deals together. Without capital, you can test things out in very inexpensive or no cost ways just to see does this have any type of traction, you can test products without having a product? And that type of stuff is kind of important in the beginning stages to determine whether or not your idea is viable. But you're right about the investor being in the Catford seat. That's That's why we created gusher is we felt that literally venture capitalists shouldn't have that say, angel investors shouldn't be the king of money that they're handing it out on their throne. If anything, the marketplace should be the determination that the the the the one thing that actually determines whether or not your idea should come to life, it should be based upon the market, and whether or not people are willing to go ahead and either join your startup or help you in some way.

So let's say that, so I'm kind of a, I know a few things about PR, and branding and marketing and you know, getting, you know, building buzz for companies and you know, I'm happy to, you know, I would have looked at it, you know, and this is kind of how I got my start is that was savings Angel, we're doing pretty well. And I feel like look, anytime you're successful in business, you should, you should take a portion of your time and or resources, and you invest back and you help other people, you give them a hand up kind of thing. And so, you know, in some ways, you could kind of look at this and say, Well, this is how I'm going to do that. And it allows me in some ways to almost be an investor and leverage this, you know, this expertise that I built, because I built successful company before. So someone like myself, you know, I could go through and say, hey, these guys are looking for marketing and or, you know, visibility, help. And I wonder how big those roles end up being? I mean, is that, you know, you talked about how someone could probably serve as an advisor on a part time basis. Is that how it works,

but think of it this way, right? And let's use you as an example, right? You have this body of knowledge that if we have a startup called startup, a whatever it may be, I guarantee you, if you took a look at it within 510 15 minutes, your mind would automatically almost in a way laser focus on to the actions right, the action steps, right, absolutely. Think about if they were doing it, if they were doing it, then how many years would it take them Josh to be able to get to that level?

I know there's something to be said for you know, when you when you do something for 12 years, you start to learn a few things that right, what 12 years, it would take them 12 years to learn what I'm learn.

And that's 100% dead on as to why you create teams with gusher and launcher startup, because what you're able to do is take Josh, bring them onto your team, Josh is going to get 234 or 5%, maybe more depending upon how key is to the deal to the actual startup, you're going to come in with a laser focus, it's not going to be something that you're there 100 hours a week, you're bringing your skill set in there right at the beginning, when it can have the most impact, because you're helping determine the trajectory of that company, versus trying to correct some mess down the road a year or two from now, or trying to go ahead and breathe life to something that's dead or a walking zombie, you're giving like you're putting your DNA into that baby from the very beginning. So the chances of success are much, much higher. And you're able to bring in your laser focused skill set to it, which is the attraction.

So in terms of like where you guys are at right now as terms of a platform, I know you're just kind of coming out of beta right now. But it looks as though there's a lot of there's a lot of handshaking going on. Or there's a there's a lot of from you know, from what I can tell on the outside, it seems like there's a lot of activity. Yep,

we have our first approximately, I think 45 deals as of this morning 45 startups that are in the platform and moving along. So we have everything from SAS two medical device to consumer goods, and they're located all over the place. International also, they are US based corporations. But the entrepreneurs themselves are also international all over the place. So everything from President Russia, Baron kiya Colombia, to oh my gosh, Monaco, all over Europe, all over the United States. I mean, all from Silicon Valley to New York and everything in between Canada, Central America, you name it.

What are your favorite ideas for getting an idea of validated or coming up with an MVP in a way that, you know, some people might say, Well, look, I don't even know how to do an MVP, because I'd have to build this thing. And even a prototype, I just I don't have access to like, how do you? How do you get to that point?

Think of it this way. I was actually thinking about this this morning, that bad ideas lead to good ideas. Okay, let me explain what I mean by that. And when I say bad ideas, a person may have an idea in their head as to what may be a real problem out there, right. And they may go about thinking about it a certain way, but it never gets past out of their head, I believe in actually releasing those bad ideas out into the wild and talking with people about them, whether it's your friends, your family, your co workers, even strangers about the bad idea, because what will happen is the following typically, that bad idea will start getting chiseled down into something that's a good idea. That's something that should be made. And you'll start seeing that right off the bat. But fundamentally, with gusher, there's almost no way no bad ideas, what we say is that there should be a problem that should be identified. So it's not a function of really, as an entrepreneur, you're trying to sit there and create a solution, you're trying to identify a problem as the main quote unquote, idea. Because from my perspective, it's not up to you as the entrepreneur to solve this problem. It's your your, your main core reason for being is to identify that problem, and put the team together that actually, that problem. So I may have, you know, a problem identified as x Josh, but you're now part of that team, you're going to know damn, well how to get that out there in some way to help generate that first bit of traction, that takes a lot of pressure off in terms of whether or not it's valid, you know, that's the whole point of the team is that you're able to go ahead and create something like that prototype that MVP, that first version, but not you is just the entrepreneur, but you as an entire team that's bringing that laser focus skill set, that adds value to it. Because if you're sitting there and you think it's a piece of crap, and that isn't going to fly, chances are a, you're not going to go ahead and join the startup, which means that other people probably aren't either, which means that idea to be rework, but if you joy in it, and you think there's something there, you're going to put some effort into it. And the value that you bring is just going to make that idea better. It's as simple as, huh. So it's stages.

Yeah, you don't in my world, too. It's, it's interesting, I feel like there's these, these kind of two camps, you have kind of this, you know, these, this group of entrepreneurs that are kind of aiming toward the, you know, they want to attract funding, they want to grow and scale, they want to build a big team. And then you've got this world of the kind of the solo hour where I think they're trying to do everything themselves. Yeah. And it just takes them forever. And they wonder why they stagnate. And, you know, they just, and I get it when you're like, Well, look, I don't have the money to invest in a team. But you know, it's like, you know, what percentage of all the work that gets done in my company, what percentage of that work am I doing? It's, it's 5%. I mean, I have all of the of all the hours being put in all of the, you know, I'm a small part of a larger team now. And because of that, I were just able to do more stuff, we impact more people, we can have a bigger impact on the world. And so the time to build the

team, you took the processes, you created something that sales wise and income wise creates a structure that's duplicatable, and scalable. So whereas a solo printer, if you're doing something to go ahead, that's not scalable, like, okay, you're talking to people, you're learning how to sell, you're doing whatever, that stuff that does eventually scale, okay, those skill sets. But if you're sitting there just doing busy work all the time, and you're the only person and not growing it. That's typically the death knell. That's what prevents you from getting to that next stage. You have to think outside yourself and how to go ahead build structures.

There's certainly nothing wrong with a lifestyle business. And I think a solo printer can get you know, they can knock on the doors, six figures. It's not you know, it's not impossible to do. But getting to seven figures, there aren't too many, seven figure solo printers on

them. And getting the eight and nine is a much different story. I

forget a place. Sure. I mean, you're gonna you're just going to need a team. Do you? I mean, I guess it it really depends on the company, the skills you come into it. But I wonder what are what are some of the early hires that you see a lot? for, you know, it started made its way these guys are really in demand like, or if if I'm a solo printer, and I want to start expanding out like, I don't know what what do you typically see as like, some of your

first iteration I think of when when I if I was from a solo printer position. Okay, let me reframe it a little bit, right. I try to think of it in terms of product, even if it's a service oriented business. My question is to ask entrepreneur and I try to steer them this way, a lot of times, is that you're there to go ahead and craft a product and a process that's duplicatable. So I don't care if you're a concierge where you're there helping people at their conferences, one on one, if you want to scale that, you have to put a process in place a process of hiring of training, a process of communication, a process of advertising, a process of collection of payment, a process of invoicing, the process of interaction with your customers, the second you put the processes in place, that's what ends up being scalable. Otherwise, you're just a rat running around on a wheel all day, which is Okay, listen, if that's what you want to do, and that's what you're comfortable. And so being but if you're sitting there at the end of your day, tired, hating life, start building processes out. And usually to build processes out, you need people, it's as simple as that. So you can take your time yourself and learn each of these processes over a long period of time. Or you bring in a team and just snap it and get it done to allow you to scale.

Cool, what's your prediction for the next 12 months for gusher

will launch over 12,000 startups and right on our way to a million. So our long term goal is a million I know it sounds actually bad shit crazy. I get it. I understand. You know, in our plans, we say 25,000 startups over the course of the next three, three and a half years. But really, when there's 300 million people on the globe, that are researching and trying to figure out how to launch and create a startup in some way. We think a million startups is not that undoable we think it's a goal that's able to be reached. And we think we have a methodology that can do it, especially considering market size and and what's going on with the globe.

Well, I mean, it's just it's, you're just you're a platform. And so, you know, it's like, you know, the Uber, I hate to use this expression, but you know, it's like this Uber of just connecting, you know, people that can provide services and help with people that are like, Look, I've got the thing, let's do this together, let's bring it to market. And isn't that

right framework to do that. Because there are a lot of steps in between that, you know, a founder does have to go through the process of doing it. So we create those steps and provide the structure that enables them to do that. So it's not just let's say connection, where you meet up and stuff magically gets done. When you're dealing with a founder and creating startups and teams, there are things that are done or I should say, the goals, the milestones and methodology, the processes that we actually provide and help the entrepreneurs and the teams go through those stages. So it is something that is not just let's say, Here's where meeting, connecting and hopefully everything works out, we find that actually doesn't work, you have to go ahead and provide a certain amount of structure that enables that entrepreneur to go ahead and knock out those goals with the team. And that's really what gusher is also amazing.

Amazing. So Chris, exciting times. And how did how did how do you think you're going to get to that level? Like it's gonna be kind of an A? is it just an awareness thing? Do you think of music? education? Like, how do you how do you get to those bigger levels? I mean, obviously, I think some success stories and no, trumpeting those success stories. I think that's going to be pretty inspiring to a lot of, you know, the 699. You know, 700 startups that are like, I forget this, right, right, what am I doing here, I gotta get going.

Well think it Think of it this way, when you've done and I know you've done business for a long time, right? And you're going to internalize this or say this in your own way. But I know it's going to resonate in some way, Josh, right. And that's when it comes to doing business. You put stuff out there in a certain way. And so long as you're growing, eventually, what's going to happen typically, is you're going to bust through and it starts becoming a life of its own. Alright, so let me give you a quick example, I had a low carbohydrate food manufacturing company, we went from zero to 50 million inside of three years. And we're one of the largest, if not the largest, low carb baking operation out there. Well, let me tell you something that first year I was sleeping on a factory floor, I was making the product that was delivering it in the winter, it was frozen, where I had my air conditioning on in a car as it was driving to stores. And guess what, that's not scalable. That's something that doesn't, you know, you can't do your whole life doing that. But sure enough, certain articles would come out, we start growing suddenly, then people started knocking on our door to invest in the company starts growing like wildfire. And it just expands, expands expands all over the place. So what ends up doing is you do the stuff that's not scalable until it catches on. And with gusher, we think we're right at the right timing at the right place in the right moment in history, that we think that demand is there, and we think it is going to take off. It's just a function of time. And as you said, a couple success stories. And we're out there and those are well underway right now. So it's just a matter of time and effort.

Right, brilliant. Chris, thank you so much. I hear the helicopter blades worrying. That's our cue. We get you out of here. Europe in Europe and Delaware.

Yep. Wilmington, Delaware. Nice. Back to you on that helicopter.

Yeah. Do you like how long you been in Delaware?

in Delaware for going? Oh, my God, seven, eight years now and Philadelphia for about 1011 years before that. But

what really keeps you in Delaware?

My wife? Yeah.

So she's a mega mega fan of Delaware. Exactly. Philadelphia Really? But we're one mile from the Philadelphia border. Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Philadelphia, Jason will use the

bellows. Great. Great, Chris. Thanks so much, man. Thank you for your time. Thanks, Josh.

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