#HACKED: Make Less Content Yet Gain More Traffic with Amp My Content’s Daniel Daines-Hutt

Our guest for today is Daniel Daines-Hutt, CEO and founder of Inbound Ascension. Inbound Ascension is a program that focuses in successfully retargeting and remarketing brands.

Aside from being the CEO and Founder of Inbound Ascension, Daniel is an internationally recognized and certified Digital Marketer, Public Speaker, and Marketing Consultant.

This blog isn’t the end of it though. To know more about Daniel Daines-Hutt and how he started Inbound Ascension, listen to the podcast found above and let me know what you think!

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Don’t forget to check out our other podcast, Authority Confidential, here. 

UpMyInfluence is an Influence Agency dedicated to turning thoughtful entrepreneurs into media celebrities increasing their authority, influence and revenue. To learn how we can help YOU check out Josh’s free webinar.

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Morse code here. As you probably know, Josh cleaned out all of our best place bugs sliding back at the bunker, pod Packard put GPS tracker on Josh so I know when you come back by Josh found it stuck to a bus it is the GPS says he said toward Canada. Meanwhile, he just walked in with my amazing spy skills. I dived into the couch, which was not easy. It's a tight fit. Josh has brought a guest back a Daniel Danes hot with my content, entrepreneurs and their content. Oh, God, I think their purposes Yeah.

Here we go.

No, we changed our, our, like our lead magnet, we changed it to a quiz. Matter of fact, if you I'd love I'd love to get your opinion on this. So we went from we just had, we had like a downloadable thing it was it really wasn't that great. I mean, really just took several of our articles and kind of mash them together. And I just don't think that it was very helpful for people. But we changed it to now we we kind of followed a little bit of Ryan Novak's method with ask, and we asked, you know, what's your authority score? Take the quiz. And then so they click on that. And it's kind of a very easy, it's kind of social media, kind of, you know how many, and we're basically just trying to give them a score, kind of like almost like you're getting your cloud score something where you answer several questions like how many social media followers do you have? Do you have a Wikipedia article? Or do you have reviews of testimonials? And then at the end, then it gives them it asks for them to support their name and email address. And then and then we'll then I give them their score on that on that page. What would you do now from there? I'm sure I don't know if you saw, but I have a free masterclass that I give away. And it's four videos, I mean, it's really valuable stuff. It's basically for 15 to 20 minute videos. And then that kind of leads them into, we did have an open cart closed carts no longer available, but it tees up a total authority makeover, which we were offering for three payments of 599. And I can actually we're going to tweak that now we got some really good feedback, I'm actually going to be able to bring the price down to 497. And make it a little bit more automated. So kind of Morse kind of self help step by step system. So my team won't be doing the copy editing and stuff like that. But I guess that's one third the price. Anyway, so that's kind of like our current sales funnel using your like, you know what you've learned about this? Like a Do you see any, like immediate tweaks or things that you'd be like, Josh, what you really should do is dot dot dot.

Have you seen an increase in opt in rate from people doing it? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Compared to what we had previously? Oh, yeah. So in fact, with the quiz, Eve, who are we using, we're using lead quizzes for that. And the, if they click on the start button, start the quiz. 44% of them are going to give us their email address. So we think that that's pretty good. Like I was chatting with the lead quizzes guy, they have a free consultation when you join them. He was really impressed with that. He thought that that was pretty outstanding. So and before,

it was pretty lousy. I'm just filling out the quiz myself. So 44% of people go into the quiz, give you that email.

Yeah, 45 45% completion rate.

And you're basically you all kind of replicating a cloud score, right. But I think cloud is Yeah. Is it Twitter? Or is it it's full authority? Like,

yeah, we had, we took about 10 kind of separate indicators that we thought were there. 10, you know, it's kind of a cross section of different things, media, podcasts, just as a sampling. I didn't want to make that. I mean, initially, I had like, 44 indicators, in, in like a downloadable thing that they could get. And I just, you know, I just really wanted to just make it very, very simple, easy to complete. And then you know, use that to kind of get on, get a score. And then you know, make sure they're opted in, and then give them give them lots of value.

So what I would do, and I've just gone through it now, hmm. And it's really good, I would possibly once they get to the score at the end. So like medium authority, low, high, very high celebrity things like this, I would, the more you give away, the more people trust you. So I would even have been higher list of things that you recommend people do. But obviously adjust it based on different authority levels. So below page would have a lot of things on the celebrity page might have very unique things on then you've given them a list of action work. So it's like don't sweat this, but we clearly have some work to do by doing x, you'll get Y and Zed by doing this, you'll be at this and this. So you've given them a like a checklist, things that are important. And then rather than say, continue to free video, usually, you know, but you're going to be pitched at that point. So I would say maybe like, learn more. So you give them all these steps and things that you think, excuse me, Poland is really bad bizarrely, at this time of year. So you give them all the steps that they can, because what we've just done in essence, is we've got them really excited to take action on a particular problem. And then we're labeling what the problems are. But we're also stacking the benefits next to it. So yes, you have these problems, and these are less. But if you fix that you're going to get this and that leads to the Yeah. And that leads to this. And so then it's not a thing on their to do list. It's a it's a state change. All right,

awesome. Okay, so let me recap here. So I'm this is this is I'd like I have the man who understands, you know, opt ins, and and, and, you know, getting conversions and getting people engaged. You're a smart dude.

Like the Machiavelli of 10s.

Yeah, so. Okay, so just to recap here. So the more the more value giveaway, the more people trust you and so yeah, is there a way So? So for example, like, what do you see right now on your screen? When, because we're communicating on my super top secret designed by NSA, CIA to be totally secure. So there's no way that hackers can listen to us right now. But I don't see your screen. And so does it have like the Okay, here's your score, blah, blah, blah, and does have a they have a button to continue?

it? Does it has the button underneath? Which is it continue to free video?

Yes. And and so that, so those four videos that come I mean, that's crazy, crazy valuable. Maybe there's a better way to segue from there to the the content that I'm giving away. So it's a video version of what you've designed. I mean, you're basically giving away, you know, the report is, I mean, it's it's hardly fair to call it a report. I mean, it's like it's it's a it's a master, it's a dissertation. It's I mean, it's and it's super valuable. And that's what got that's what you got your your OPT in rate, like off the charts, because you're giving away a book at 6% right now

at 86%. opt in rate to Yeah, it is to do that. It's also to do with a couple of triggers. It's given them the next logical thing that they want. Like I was saying, Just now, when we're talking about we go through this quiz, yeah. And we're telling them their authority score, and they clearly have issues that they need to fix, right? haven't talked them what they need to fix. And so they don't know the next action to take over them to click the video and click into a video feels like it might be salesy. And they're so excited to do something and take action. But what kind of we haven't given them anything to take action. So what they might do is they might open up another tab, and look at how to improve my industry authority or something like that, you know, and so I'm

so surprisingly, I mean, I really kind of followed because you and I have, you know, we've had a friendship here for a little while. So I followed your advice. So it actually doesn't get salesy at all. So yeah, so the YouTube video that is embedded on the thank you page, you know, just says, hey, let's review your score, don't feel bad, like, you know, I'm not perfect 100 very few people, or even close anyway, most people are low authority. And that's totally fine. We can fix this. And so what do you need to do. And so that's, and that's actually when it gets into the free videos, then I give them. So there's three different downloads, and one of them's like, and maybe I need to talk about, maybe I need to introduce this a little bit better, because they're actually going to get like that first download is a list of all my favorite free tools for really understanding your online and measuring your online authority. So it's measuring your like your website popularity, your placements, like how to tell, you know, who's talking about you how to set up alerts on yourself. So it's, it's super valuable, and it's all free stuff. And so that's a really cool kind of resource guide for them. The next one, get takes them through a little bit more of an audit. And meanwhile, the videos are really kind of laying this foundation of Listen, you know, you know, the most valuable currency you can have today is authority. And so I really kind of build on pushing over that big Domino, and then give them advice on here's how to do this, here's why you should be doing this. It's not until the fourth video where I talked about, and this is where I kind of have to work on what, you know, kind of this next phase of our launch, because we had our launch launches over, it's open and closed. We were pretty happy with that. But we definitely learned a lot of things. And so I kind of want to build now a new evergreen offer that we can offer. That's you know, probably about one third the price, but it's a little bit more automated.

I am you know how I feel because I'm always I'm a big fan of content marketing. And I think the only reason it fails salesy is because I work in the industry, we have been around a while. So as soon as we see a four part video sequence, we're like, Okay, well, we're going to get Jeff Walker frame. Yeah.

If your audience wants what you have, you know,

what I would love? If it was me is I would take all the stuff in the video, and I would create it into an article. Because I'm still have the video embedded in the page. Because then what happens is that page there would actually rank for the content you're talking about. Right now, if you think about, it's technically gated, because Google can't really understand what that video is about fully. Yeah. And so you're not going to, you're missing out on potential free traffic of people who are very warm, who are looking to boost their authority. You know, if I open another tab, and imagine if this article is the one that actually came up. So even if I didn't click across, this is the thing that I found, this is the page that they found. So your


Yeah, so your pillar content? Got your ridiculous opt ins? Yes. Was it behind an opt in or it's in front? So you just say, here's my, so I could take the transcripts of my video series, build it out into just a mega mega article. And it I mean, it's, it is it's like 2530, it's about I think it's about 25 pages, if I were to take all the transcripts, and then of course, with formatting and all that other stuff, I mean, it's going to be even more so you know, make it really easy to digest. So. So okay, so I've got this huge piece of content. And I know, again, I know this is your kind of what you teach it at my content. So I just make that a blog article, I would make it kind of multiple chapters. So I wouldn't have it as age.

Because if you do that, you can also then have different channels ranking for different terms. For example, downloading page one is a list of tools of how to boost your authority level. So that could be there's probably a keyword search around that. So you could get a lot of traffic for people looking at tools to boost their authority.

And you the way you do it, like you don't put it in a PDF like you do, you just have it in a in an article right directly on your site

yet, because then if you think of the benefits, it's on the page, so it's all up front. So it's a huge amount of trust. People will link to it. So we will get traffic, people will continue to link to it. So you'll start to get traffic for things that you're not even targeting. So you'll start to rank for the tools that you're recommending and things like that. Yeah, so it becomes an actual asset, you could drive paid traffic to it, because it would convert a high enough rate that it would be profitable. And what you can do is you can still have have that PDF as a download in that chapter. Because it's people want actionable items. So if it's the next thing they want to take, so imagine you have this this first page, and you're talking about this big topic and what you're going to cover and you're setting the pain point, and you start talking about this, and every chapter has a download, that's kind of the next thing, almost think of each chapter as a mini course. So like this is the problem we're going to talk about now. And here's how we're going to solve it. And also, here's a three minute video of me showing you how to set up a mentioned alerts. And they click on it, because you've just talked about it and how important it is. And now if they opt in, they get this thing, what I like to do is I like my audience to opt in again, and again and again, for different assets. One because we shouldn't just assume that they want the things and so just give it all away. So some people if you opt in for one thing to give them every asset, which is just an overload of information. Here's a page of every download I've ever made and everything else instead by getting them to opt into certain things every time they do we are creating a commitment principle where they keep following, right.

Yeah. health psychology standpoint, you're getting them to say yes, yes, yes, yes,

moving them closer and closer. And every time they do and we're not pitching them. There's so much reciprocity prosody, there's so much trust and no one's doing it right, everyone is almost trying to make a sale immediately after an opt in before they even get the thing there's like a tripwire offer before the download arrives and things like this. But if we're stacking up these yeses, and building all this trust that goes in, it does a huge amount for your business and, and for your relationships and things like that. But it's also because it's such an asset iraq Can I editors will link to it. So So we, we have a training program, we used to have agency clients and things like that, but we have a link to our articles. Because it's just so good. It's easier than them writing their own. And because it's a Jason as well, it's like that they don't see any threat from it. And they don't realize that they're actually sending their customers to us. Things like that. So I like the smart, lazy approach. I like things that can do a lot of things all at once. So the article is there, it can rank, it can convert, it can get more opt ins, I can drive traffic to it. You know, if different platforms die, you know, if Google died and being came the next one, I still have this asset there, then people referring to and things like that. So I would I would still keep the video though, because different people prefer different learning models, some people are

behind the opt in.

Now I try not to get anything really less. It's the next logical thing. So say like,

say we talked about building authority and tracking alerts, I would show step by step with images, how to set up mentioned alerts. So it's all there in the order. So it's super actionable. It's basically nine elements that make up really high performing content online, it has to be trustworthy has to build authority and reciprocity. It has to have value and be actionable. So I put it all in the content, but the content is 3000 words. And if you're following along, sometimes it's easier rather than reading an article, it is to just press play on a video, something like hey, if you want like a two minute video of me doing this, you can get an idea. And so it's it's an additional thing, but it's tied into the thing that we just done. We call it next step offer. So it's like an additional bonus. It's almost like, Hey, you bought the DVD Do you want the director's commentary also have this? Right. So it ties in, but it's valuable enough on its own, that people actually want it because no one ever buys it separately on its own. You know, no one ever buys that commentary on its own, they still need the film for it to work. Yeah. So that works ridiculously well, like our lowest opt in rate, I think is 17%. Yeah. Which is just huge in our industry. And we're not using anything like kick baby or anything like that. But I will still have that video on the page. Yeah.

So right now I'm, if I'm going through, like the way that we're doing content, so and I sent you some links, by the way, let me let me start with that. And, and come up, I'd love to kind of get kind of pick your brain here. Since this is, you know, you've really kind of nailed this stuff down. So, you know, I definitely want to talk about you know, repurposing content. And, you know, how can we you know, and all I'll talk about my own, and we'll kind of talk about some ways that you would advise to a client, say, for example, because I know that this is you, you provide coaching and training on on the services. But if I could, so I sent you, again, in our top secret, NSA, CIA security, like no one, this isn't, we're not talking on zoom here. This is something designed by the most most secure minded experts available, so but this first top secret link here that I sent you, it's got a video here. And then it's what I really wanted you to look at would be below the video, there's an orange button that says download the lesson one authority makeover guide. And so if you open up that PDF, so I could take this because right now you're going to see, I mean, it's a lot of links to all these different tools. And so I basically could just turn this into an article, and then this article, then the opt in, would allow them I could give them so I could either say we could download a PDF version of this, or? Or would I have them opt in to watch this video? Or what do you think would be a good opt in for this content?

So if I was, if it was me, I would have the entire guide as multiple chapters, because then it's a multi page asset that ranks for different things.

Yeah, and I do have sections in here for sure. And I would still incredibly long, it's like, it looks like, you know, maybe like four pages of content here in this. That's all

good when you actually start to expand it. And actually show Hey, click here and do this, then do this. And it fills up the content quite quickly.

Yes, because the could also do content around like, Okay, well, here's like a, you know, your LinkedIn social selling index, which nobody knows, nobody knows about that. And so I could actually include a video of me walking through and demoing how to read your SSI. And it's one thing to get it but like, Okay, what does this mean? And so I could have them opt in and watch a video of me explaining SSI or something like that,

exactly. So if I would have that on a page, or you talk about it, an article, so it's not gated, so anyone can find it, and all the value and I would show how to do it. So what you can actually do is record the video first. Then as you go through the video, you can stop and screenshot sections, pull out those sections and pull them into the article. So you basically got not a transcript, it almost is, but you've you've restructured it. So it makes like a high converting blog post, be still, it's still the flow of information is the same and things like that. And you pull these parts out. And men, it's all there on the page. But it makes it so much easier for them to then say, Okay, well click here, and you can watch a quick video at the same time. Side by side, you know, as you actually do it yourself. So people like that, and it feels like it's the next, it feels like it's an added bonus, you've added fries to their meal kind of thing. Right and it and it makes sense on their app for the actual downloads themselves. They don't have to be huge. So that article that I've got, it's got a really high opt in rate. But it's not the most effective on the back end people not taking as much action as they do on smaller things. So I have one, which is I'm showing people how to improve a blog post and I talked about the nine elements. And I showed them all the different things in the article itself. And then on the bonus, I say do you want to see me quickly do this. That's a bad example. Basically, what you want in that bonus is it has to be actionable. So the PDF that you've got now is actually perfect. Because it's a it's a compressed version of all the information they've got. So the job of the article really, is to build an emotional conflict and desire and create that connection. So that they actually go to take action, because people will just not take action until the room is on fire, you know? Yeah.

And I think that is kind of idea what we're thinking about with the authority quiz is we have to reveal the problem first. Yes, the problem is like, Whoa, you know, you don't have a press kit. And you're saying that you want to work with the media? Yes, you're not getting any media, like, and we could fix this.

But people don't even realize why it's a problem. And how it's a problem. So when I talked to our, our students, the reason I get into make a press kit is because they might be sharing content to influence or a things like that they might start getting attention. Imagine, imagine you all a journalist in your industry, and you come across to the site, and you want to feature them. If you've got to try and find an email, find a photo, find out that what information about them and all this stuff, every step that you make it more difficult unless you've just been, like accused of like a mass murder spree or something like that. They're not going to go to the effort to find that information. So everything that you do in life has to be about the other person. And it has to be simple for them to take action.

Yeah, right. It was a scary thing. Yeah, it's brilliant that you guys have a press kit. I think everybody should have one. Because it what you're not see what what folks, in this case, what you said, it's, it's the opportunities they don't know that they didn't get is because they didn't have it. And so, you know, it's easy for us to just kind of go along our happy way and say, well, business is pretty good. Yeah, it actually could be a lot better. Had you had somebody be, you know, be mindful and kind of coach you on the sides of it now. So I think you do and you've, you've done, Daniel, I could just say you've done very, very well, in making yourself available. You've done some really, really great podcast interviews and featured on a lot of great, I mean, everyone from Tech Smith is as inbound growth hackers co schedule, which is actually where I heard you Active Campaign. Um, so you've actually been working with some some big like, these are big tool companies.


Yeah. Yeah. But I think that why why do you think that they are saying yes to you?

Yes, I pitched personally. And the reason being there was an alignment between my audience and theirs. But it's because I also made it about them. I gave them, I made it easy, I showed that I was an authority, I gave them a list of topics that I thought would work. So I made it so easy, but all I had to do was say yes, and book in a time and everything was ready to go, we could have recorded 10 minutes later if they wanted to. So it was just so easy for them to move forward. I have an example of those. So yesterday, I was pitched on going on a different podcast, who had heard us on a different show, found our press kit, and then pitched us and they have like 75,000 monthly listeners. So it's a huge, huge podcast like the previous guests, the UFC, World Champions, and like, it's all about performance, this podcast, but I would have had no idea that that person was on my, I would have had no idea that I'd missed that opportunity. If I didn't have those things available for that person to get in touch with me, you know, like having that press kit and things like that in place. So what I'm good at, I'm good at pitching and seeing the value that I can give to others. But because I didn't miss those things on my site to make it simple for other people to come to me and off make opportunities as well. You know, which is huge. Great.

Cool. I'm so the servers already money.

So I don't have a long history of a club. And you know, nowadays, basically, so we have our own website, our own blog, that builds authority, and it teaches people how to create effective content. But more importantly, it shows people how to actually distribute, and promote that, because what most people don't realize is, you'll see a better return from actually going in depth and promoting it. And so we teach people how to do that on our blog. And then we have a training program, it goes into far more detail. showing people how to do that that's like 21 hours of content on stuff. It's like paid ads on different channels, SEO link, building link earning influencers, forums, all these kind of things, that we actually had our own internal training. And then we had so many people ask about it, that we started to expand and and get people coming through the door. And it's going really well now it's pretty exciting. People are getting results and things like that. But that is our main business model. Nowadays, we simply we just go into more detail. So we teach on the site, but then we actually if you know if you want one on one teaching and things like that,

yeah, that's program. Well, so just so you know, again, so in what here's, here's the way that you do this. So if I'm on your website, and I'd like to ask you why you did it like this. So if I click on blog, I go to an epic piece of content. I don't know that this is actually a blog. This looks like a page. I mean, in terms of like WordPress, I don't think that this is actually a blog article. You have, you have all these chapters, and you've taken, you know, what really feels like a book and you spread it out into eight sequential pages. And all along the way, like the from the first page, you said, Hey, don't have Well, here, it is no time to read right now download your free copy, yes, give me my PDF, and then they click on that. And then there's an email address to opt in, is that the one that you have like the ridiculously high opt in rate? It is? Yeah, 86% on that one, right now.

If you go to the start here, section, as well as different guides there. So a big thing about me is, I'm all about the smart, lazy, and obviously less is more. So we only actually have that guide, and three of our articles on our website. And yet, it generates revenue and traffic and sales and things like that. So you know, like an eight chapter guide, it takes a lot of time to write. So we'd spend a lot of time promoting that. And we'll even keep promoting it. It already ranked number one for its keyword. Here's the thing, if I continue to build links to it, it's now ranking number one for different keywords that we're not even targeting. So the traffic is kind of compounding upwards. So the reason that's on the blog page is because I don't have any other articles to give them right now. Yeah, it is, in reality, it's eight guides. So it but they all sequential, they all tie together. The start here section is actually our sales process, is getting people on boarded and understanding, actually what we do and why we do it so that they are in the best possible position to choose to become a customer or not. Hmm, so that's getting people helping them to understand why promotion is so vital. And,

and, and things like that. Daniel, do you? What does what do you use on the back end for email communication? So why don't you take How are you so when someone opts in, obviously, you deliver something to them right away. And then what happens for that person, I think you think it gets pretty intelligent right on your on your end.

Um, it's not that complex, it's kind of it's just waiting set periods of time to give them time to consume the content. We're not waiting for specific triggers or anything like that. We could, the software would allow us to do that. But we're just kind of waiting a set period of time saying, hey, that that article, next article is here, the next article was here, just spreading out distance as well, because we're trying to give them we're trying to pre frame them and so that they understand what it is we're going to offer at some point. And to do that we have to create neural pathways. And if we give that information too fast, too soon, no grooves have been made, you know, but still running on the old tracks. You know, they have to have these aha moments, but there has to be sort of belief in it as well. And so if we go too fast, it's like, hey, there's this, this and this, and this, you want to buy this thing, even though they've just got all this new information. They're not using it the base decisions that they're using those old pathways. And so we're helping them to build that. But we're only using his basic email CRM. And it's just give them a couple of days. Here's the next one, give them a couple of days is enough. We use Active Campaign for that. But we are testing out a new software right now as well, which actually has built in monetary tracking, where it will tell us how much a lead is worth, on average, based on total sales and things like that. So

yeah, you know, I really liked the using the dating metaphor, and it's, you know, generally you're not going to meet someone for the first time and spend the next 72 hours together. Yeah, if you're not gonna have a 72 hour first date, you know, you're going to meet for coffee. Oh, okay. I guess you know, it was a good experience there. And then, you know, maybe you need for drinks, or, you know, a drink. And again, in a public place, you know, it just, you nurture the relationship, but you're not like, you know, breathing down their neck, breathing down their neck at every turn. It's kind of what I hear you saying,

totally, I have a funny story about that. A friend went on a first date the ones and he drove the girl home. And there's a snowstorm came in. And so we had to stay on his sofa. But it was so bad. He was there for three days.

For like a hallmark movie,

right? So it's the first date and then the date went well. But then it's just like they're driving each other crazy by the end of it, because there's no power, they can't do anything. All they can do is talk to each other. So

I know this is a movie, like I

swear there probably as

one or maybe you're telling me this happened in real life.

Yeah, to a friend over in the States, who I worked at a summer camp with, because you guys get crazy weather patterns and things over the Yeah, he was stuck there. And it was just kind of like by the end of day four, they were good friends, but they didn't go on a single date again. Yeah. But the irony is sometimes we we try and create situations, we try and jam so much content at people down their throats, that we are being that kind of that, you know, we're making it uncomfortable. We're not giving them enough, enough time to breathe and grow and, you know, see all the value that we offer. They're just thinking, I wish that guy would stop chewing his food. So louder. You know?

Where do you see the future of content? In terms of like, where are we going to be in five years from now? Or are we just drowning in content right now. And so content marketers are need, they're going to need to start, you know, quit. I wonder if you're going to here's what I wonder if you're going to say, quit designing stuff for Google? Quick, you know, design stuff for humans? I don't know, what would you say we,

we always need to be designing for what it is. It's a it's a trend. We're almost almost ways retro actively creating content for stuff that's already happened. People are searching for a term. And so when we create content for that, but you know, we kind of needed that created already. So it's not always the best way to create interactions or to look for interactions. Especially, I don't know if you saw recently Google have just basically, I apologize, there's so much background noise right now there's it

could be spies. I have a problem with that. I'm just telling you. I

know, I think they're actually trying to come in for the door.

But if you saw recently, the mobile developments that Google did, you know, usually you'll have like the first free searches at the top of the page will be adverts, and now very clearly say in blue font that it's an ad and things like that. They've now started getting rid of all of that and making it hidden inside. So it says ad, but it's in doc font, and it's only to the one side, and thing so all looks like calm. But the really their adverts and the Yelp page. And so the reason people don't the reason they did that, so people click on ads. And the reason people miss the ads is because they're like, well, this is just I don't want to click on this straight away, I'm I want to look for a piece of content that's actually ranked and things. So you are right, it is competitive, and there's so much white noise. But we have to start being strategic about distribution. That's why we got into it because all the channels keep changing Google's changing and things like this. So they're actually making it now as well. So in the future, let's say that you go to a blog.

If you search for a search term, a keyword later on

an article, a different article, different website might not rank number one, because they're going to base that new search off your previous searches. Yeah, it's like, hey, this article on this site you've been on before, you've never been this particular page, but you have visited the site before, let's show you that page instead, rather than a different article, which might even be a better source. And so we need to be thinking about getting past that white noise. But we also need to be getting in front of people and the traditional channels and making it more and more difficult to do that. So we have to be more about putting that article in front of that person, we need to have this combination of whatever distribution channel paid traffic or whatever you choose with that content. At the same time, we can't be one of the other anymore, we can't just be a paid ads person, we can't just be a con, right. And we need to have that blend, which I know is hard because the paid ad guys don't want to create assets. And the inbound guys are so scared to go out and not to pitch the thing. You know, that's why the appeal was I think, previously, but we do need to blend that now. And the irony is if you're a content marketer, it's not that hard to do, because you understand your audience. So you can see right ads for them and things.

Yeah. What do you think about? I know that the past few months, there's, there's been a lot of changes at your place like Facebook. So if you're a Facebook Ads Manager, it's I don't know, man, my everything I'm hearing is it's it's just tougher and tougher. And it's, you know, to either get ROI, or it's getting more expensive. Facebook, I don't know, what's your opinion of, of kind of the world between social media advertising, and how that intersects with content marketing. And if you were to give smart business advice over how someone should be positioning their lead gen. I mean, I think you've kind of already talked about this a little bit. But I'm just curious, you know how this inner plays with social.

Personally, I like I love it, because it ties in directly with what we're doing. So a lot of these platforms to get started, they make it very simple. So everyone can get it, and everyone can buy media and things like that. But over time, they run out of supply. And so then they have to make it more and more difficult. So people who were just running, you know, you could run traffic directly to those four videos, and you will make sales, and you'll probably still see a profit and things because there's a good margin and stuff like that.


But it gets more and more difficult because Facebook are trying to improve user experience. If people have a bad experience, they're going to move to another platform. Same with Google and things like that they're always about once they get to a certain inflection point where they've got enough money, they start to care more and more and more about user experience rather than their ad revenue. And so you can't just push people straight to an offer, unless your offers amazing. And the targeting is great. You can't just push people to sales page and things like that. No. And it's right. And it's because if you think about why people using Facebook this Saturday on the finished work, they're just kind of like just chilling out, and they want to be entertained, they want to have value. So if we're sending them to content on a topic that they're interested in, instead, they're going to click across, there's going to be time on page, there's going to be value. From a Google point of view. Imagine now you you possibly rank for more keywords to that person, because they've been on your site. So there's a good chance that they'll find you again, and again. And again, if your content is good, they're going to get opt ins as well. So we run paid ads to traffic, and we get them for about $1 50, which is way below what we can actually afford to budget for. And that's the reason is because we're giving massive value in advance. And the beauty is, Facebook sees that and they say okay, well these people clearly converting, and all these other triggers are on there, they've got massive time on page, they're actually clicking and sharing, they're even sharing the adverts and commenting on it and things, let's get this in front of even more people, for less money, let's charge these people less and start showing it to more people. And so it is because we're using a value first approach, it actually helps with the ad platforms as well. So that is the thing that you have to be wary of, you can use old school tactics where you just run an ad straight to an offer. But as platforms evolve, they make it more and more difficult. So you know, like, you can probably run Bing Ads right now straight to an offer, it'd be super cheap. But it's because there's not that much demand on there as a platform, you know, it or WhatsApp or whoever opens up and sets up that new platform, they'll let you do that. And you'll see results because they're charging you pennies on the dollar. But as they start to evolve as these different media channels are evolving, you have to change your approach. Or you just use a value based approach right from the start. And this hook, you're sending them the content, the content is cheap, the ads are cheap, the content gets opt ins, people are linking to it, you're getting Google traffic. So it's about rather than creating a hunting approach, where we're just going out, and we're trying to bring people in and make a sale straight away. With farming, we're creating all these assets that give all these additional benefits. And I know I went on a couple of tangents there. But

that's how I see

the approach that people need to be going. I think every platform is going to morph into this, where you are just going to have to be super valuable.

Good. Well, Daniel, I pay about $700 a minute for this secure line. And so my time is about run out. And listen worth every single seven every minute was was absolutely worth it. So I appreciate all of your your sage advice, both for my own stuff. And I've got I've got a checklist of things to do myself. And listen, I you know, when this Napoleon Hill project hits the public, it is absolutely going to transform a generation. And so I'll make sure to let people know about the brilliant work that you're doing it at my content calm. So Daniel, thank you so much, man. I'm gonna I'm going to go ahead and disconnect here. Let's see what was it was we were at 15 minutes time set. What did they say? $700 an hour. 35 K. worth it to all right. Yeah. Thanks, Daniel. Thanks so much.

Thank you so much for having me.

listeners, I think but

I get really brief.

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