#HACKED: Jeremy Slate Says Why Your Should Consider Podcasts

November 1, 2019

Our guest for today is Jeremy Slate, Co-founder and Chief Executive Officer of Command Your Brand Media.

Command Your Brand Media is the top public relations firm for podcasts.

Their program positions you in front of the right audience and teaches you how to use the content you’ve created to get the most out of each interview.

If you are an entrepreneur, expert, opinion leader, or just have a great product or service that should be advertised, then Command Your Brand Media is the company for you.

This blog isn’t the end of it though. To know more about Jeremy Slate, listen to the podcast found above and let me know what you think! 

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Don’t forget to check out our other podcast, Authority Confidential, here. 

UpMyInfluence is an Influence Agency dedicated to turning thoughtful entrepreneurs into media celebrities increasing their authority, influence and revenue. To learn how we can help YOU check out Josh’s free webinar.

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Welcome back listeners more scope here. So today I'm back in the fence except this time, I slipped myself up and bigger beforehand so people are repeating the last incident. So basically the reason I'm in here again is because Josh is building a new week in the bunker. It's pretty cool very modern clean lines. It has an aquarium sharks, which is radical black tip reef sharks. You know, they sleep in little stuck files, how to reset I always thought that Josh just passed on to me with the guest, Jeremy Slate, command your brand media. I'm just gonna dangle a mic down there and listen in. Here we go.

All right, Jeremy. Are you are you on the line? Yeah, I'm here man. Okay, cool. Alright, so we're communicating on a top secret, ultra secure military connection. So I apologize that you know, with the retina scan and all that other stuff that it makes you do. But this this project is, as you know, like ultra ultra top secret because I can't let this information get out to the masses. I think there would be chaos in the street. If everybody had access to this now I'm going to release it as you know, but I just want to make sure that we're we're able to kind of give out the information and kind of like meted out a little bit so that so so we don't have anarchy from from too many people learning too much powerful information. I know my friend, you know, some really, really good information about growing authority and influence. So thank you so much for your time, by the way, I have to pay like it's close to $1,000 a minute for this connection. But it's totally worth it

just one of those ones you have to carry around like a briefcase or something like that so you can make sure like oh my gosh,

I ended it series it looks looks like it's like something out of the Cold War. Military is not known for that I guess the quality is there but man this this computer communications device, it's basically half of the room sit as I'm sitting here. It's the old ENIAC right man. Yeah, but, I mean, honestly, zoom would be completely inappropriate for conversation like this. Alright, so let's get into this. And I've got I'm going to be taking a lot of notes here. And, again, I'm not going to be you know, hopefully I don't get hacked anything like that, because I know this would be incredibly powerful. So Jeremy, um, first off, just kind of lay some foundation. So you went to school for, UH, Oxford. How'd you get any? You're smart dude. I do know that you studied literature. So what is someone normally with a degree in literature from Oxford. do for a living.

But I have. So this is the crazy one, I have my undergrad degree in Catholic theology and Judaism was a double major. Then my, my university sent me to, to Oxford to do a whole Catholic literature program. And I came back and got my masters in early Roman Empire propaganda, which is just a fancy way of saying ancient history not at not a very applicable skill. I actually don't know what you do in that other than feel kind of smart and use some big words. But you know, other than that, you like a college professor or something like that. Like, I really don't know what else you do with that, man.

I mean, you teach other people it's I think I was talking with someone about, you know, like they got a PhD in public administration or something like that. I'm like, what do you do with that? I teach other people how to get a PhD in public administration. It's kind of one of those secular things. It's like a college, multi level marketing thing. You convinced to your friends, and then they convinced you with their friends? All right, but so eventually, so getting done with all of your education. Did you did you work in corporate America? Or did you did you were you in a job before you kind of said, you know what I need to kind of get on the entrepreneurial path.

So I came at a school in 2000. Gosh, now I'm really thinking back man 2012 is or 2011 is when I got out of grad school. And I had been working the whole time. Like during that time I had been when I wasn't working, I was managing a gym and also painting houses. I was doing like 1718 hour days in the summer, which was pretty crazy. It wasn't sleeping a whole lot. And then when I got out, there was just not really any work and education, like people actually losing jobs and education. So that was kind of like where I wanted to go. So when I came out, I actually ended up working full time painting houses during the day and managing and working at a gym at night. And then I was working out about Anywhere from 11 to 12 o'clock every night going to bed getting up at four and doing it again so it was it was quite an interesting I guess year right after school and then after that I ended up running into a family friend that was a former principal of a Catholic school here in New Jersey and he was like well hey, you know we're looking for somebody or whatever because you don't really need like any certifications to teach them private school New Jersey, they just kind of say good luck. So and I'm doing that for a couple years. And I burnt out pretty quick man because like, I don't want to sound old but like they didn't have smartphones or anything resembling them when I was in school. So I didn't know how to handle the fact of kids would try and get you angry and take a YouTube video or put you on Snapchat or something like that. And like that was your day like they just pushed you all day. And this school had no detention no suspension, no letter grip, no, no number grades, they only had letter grades. So it was a pretty weird situation. So that's kind of like what I did like right out of school for like the first two three years.

Kind of a lean on me situation or something.

Hey man or city man.

Look rich kids.

Oh no, it's just a bunch of sarcastic snotty kids. Yeah. So okay, so then eventually what you get burnt out on that? Or did you? were you doing something on the side while you're working.

Um, so that was Gosh, I think that was 2012 13. And then, around that time, my mom actually ended up having a really, really bad stroke from when she's still you know, not in great shape from she lost her language skills will work anymore. And she can't really use the right side of her body like they've given her some like braces and stuff like that she can get around and do some stuff. So she's highly motivated. She she does her best, but like it kind of made me look at a lot of different things I actually ended up doing. I was approached about this network marketing opportunity, which is why I ended up seeing it i'd like I don't know I'm from a small town man. Like I don't know what this was. I saw this presentation like I thought it was gonna get like an employee and book I was going to, like, you know, make all this money. I'm like, gosh, why isn't everybody doing this, I actually quit my job and went right into that full time and lost, lost a whole lot more. And from there actually ended up selling life insurance for a while. didn't do that. But it's a real downer to sit down with people and tell them they're going to die. And, you know, from there, I ended up actually working at a friends marketing company, which is what I did up until I started my own podcast.

Yeah. And specifically, within marketing, what area were you in?

So when I started, I didn't really know anything about marketing. So I watched a whole lot of YouTube videos, listen to a ton of podcasts, did a whole bunch of stuff. And I actually ended up building websites. I was writing CSS, HTML, like all self taught and all this stuff, and doing email marketing. So I was basically somebody else's firm. They let me run all this stuff. And I was working on some pretty cool clients at the time.

And so Jeremy, what would they do you remember the first podcast that you listened to the marketing one specifically

So here's the funny thing. I've listened to podcasts since I was in. Like, my first year of grad school. My professor at the time got me listening to this podcast that just kind of makes fun of the news called no agenda. It was with this guy, Adam curry. And it's it there. I think they're on like they're there. They're over 1000 episodes now. It's still still going. And I still listen to this this podcast. That was literally the first one I listened to. And if I had to look at the first marketing one I listened to I think it was actually smart, passive income. I think that was one of the first Yeah, that's like Elledge. Yeah.

Yeah, I think. Yep. That was up there. For me. I listened to Dan Miller 48 hour or 48 days to the work you love. I listened to Michael Hyatt. And Pat Yeah, it was and I think maybe a little bit Entrepreneur on Fire, you know, but yeah, yeah, all those ones that kind of jumped in pretty early into it. So when Did you

really Entrepreneur on Fire? I did. I loved Ryan Moran a lot that I listened to his his Freedom Fast Lane podcast when it first started to

Oh, nice, nice. Any podcasts that were not marketing? Any? So yeah, you already mentioned like no agenda and any other like really early podcasts that you recall that we're not marketing related.

So there were actually podcasts, I think was called lever box. And these were actually like, audio books that were now in the public domain. So you didn't have to charge them and they made him into podcasts. And I sat and like, listen to these things for hours.

Wow. I remember I think I listened to we were, I think one of the first podcasts I really got hooked on was does unplug which is still podcasting. It's a Disney Disney World podcast. And and I started listening to that when we made the decision. We're going to Disney World, you know, just like it was just American weeks ago. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Well, you know, it's a we came down here for Spring break and then eventually we decided to live here because we just we love the area and, you know savings Angel which I had launched started really taking off. This was back in 2008. At the time savings Angel had been active for about a year. Okay, so I'm your first podcast What was the name of your first podcast? Or is it the podcast that you're podcasting with right now?

It was called rock your life and it was the worst thing a human being ever created. And I created it. It was bad man like I there was no miking It was me talking to my MacBook. So like you can imagine how bad the sound was. And I was like, a little bit life coaching because I just gotten off of being a you know, like a MLM addict, you know, so I was kind of like recovering from that. So it was very like life coaching and it just it wasn't good man. And the design I actually made in Microsoft Paint at the time, like the cover art. It was just it was bad. It was all really bad. And I did like one or two interviews. us on that podcast that were actually decent and they use them as the first two episodes when I launched my current one. So my first couple episodes are actually from the original, like, really bad super bad podcasts that if you really look hard, you can find the cover out there for but I made the big two I didn't actually I didn't also like research and see what was out there. So I found out somebody else had the same name. So I had to edit the name so I made it in proper English and it just didn't it was bad, just a lot of bath.

So and eventually but but it got it got better, though. And so and I think that's the thing that that, you know, you hear this refrain a lot from people I think that teach podcasting is that look, you know, there's there's learned knowledge, you want to learn best practices, you know, get some decent equipment. I mean, I think you know, get up to a an acceptable level and and honestly, I don't think that that bar is very hard I or high. I don't think it's very difficult to podcast. I mean, as long as you have some basics, but the thing that you don't come into This starting is that you are probably not going to be a great podcast or out of the gate like it's, it's the only way to become In my opinion, a good even a good podcaster is yet probably just need to get 2040 6080 100 200 500 podcast. You're like how do I get the platform?

Right? People always ask me like how do I get to be able to be a be a better interviewer? I'm like, do a lot of interviews you It's the only way you're going to get better at it because you feel like an interrogator at first because you're like, Okay, great. Next question. Cool. Okay, great. Next question. It's just it's, it's something you get better at by doing man because you develop like this almost sixth sense for when to interject, or when to lead somebody back around or like what that looks like, rather than feeling like you know, you should be reading them their Miranda rights, the beginning of the interview.

So when you work with business owners, or I think when you advocate for the podcasting platform, Jeremy kind of, how do you explain like if you were to take the stage and say Alright, for the next several minutes, I am going to convince you why you should consider starting not and maybe not everybody but you know, if you are doing this in business, here are all the reasons why you should start a podcast. What would that presentation sound like?

I usually start with first why they shouldn't because I think that a lot of people, they they go out there and they're like, Okay, I'm gonna be Grant Cardone I'm going to be Gary Vee, I'm going to be john Lee Dumas and they're not themselves. So if you don't have a message that really separates you from people out there, I would say first and foremost, just don't do it. But the things I would say then, you know, once you once you realize you have a unique message, you have easier access to people than you've ever had before because they're actually listening to their earbuds all the time. People are actually sitting in the stats from from Apple's beta stats It was about I think 80% of people are people listen to about 80% of an episode. So like, think about that amount of time if you have a half hour 45 minutes an hour episode. So that people are spending with you. So the relationship building is incredible. But also like the people you meet, you and I were talking about some of the people that I've had on my podcast, before we, you know, kind of got into what we're talking about now. And none of those people ever would have like hung out with me or talk to me if I didn't have a platform. So it really gives you the ability to network but also at the same time, that the bigger thing is the branding aspects, like the positioning of positioning is so valuable, right? Like who you're seeing with who you're seeing, talking to or talking about. That's so valuable because those are brand building aspects and you really can't put a put a price tag on that because the right brand building aspects are what separates you from everybody else in your space. So to have the podcast be that tool is just so incredible. There's nothing out there like that.

Yeah. Do you use Jeremy, do you use your podcast as a sales tool?

I didn't initially because I don't know I had this weird thing about it. Like I'm an artist and I can't touch my art and blah, blah, blah. Great being broke, right? So I figured out how to take my podcasts and align it more with what I was doing. Meaning, you know, we run an agency called command your brand media where we help people get booked on the right podcast as guests. So I was thinking to myself, like, well, I'm interviewing amazing people I'd love to work with I should be having this conversation with them. So I, I've made it very gently, that it's just part of my email sequence after somebody on an interview because I don't want to sit there and pitch them. That's not the purpose of what I'm doing. But I have ended up working with some great people that I've had on my show because of that, or they they get done with the interview. You're like, wow, that was such a great interview, how can we work together and previous I would have been like, well, what can I do for you? And now it's okay, well, yeah, I want if you have a message, you want to get out there, I want to help you do it. So I think part of it honestly, it's just for some people and I know I was one of those people. It's getting over this idea of, it's not good to make money, which it's weird. Like if you have a good purpose, if you have a way you want to help people you should be making money. So once I kind of got over that, I figured out how to kind of align that a lot better.

Uh, you know, one thing, you know, speaking as a podcaster myself and you know, one conversion that that that we had is that, you know, we recognize like for us, we've got a couple of different podcasts. So um, well one that these hackers put out called authority confidential, which I listen, I have nothing to do with those sons of guns, they enter, they take my audio and they ripped it and they turned it into a podcast, so I've nothing to do with that one. But the thoughtful entrepreneur, and of course, savings Angel, so the thoughtful entrepreneur, that one, um, you know, initially we were getting pitched by podcast, guest agencies. And initially, we were thinking, well, I don't know if I want to be sold to, you know, I don't know if I want to be sold to that I need to book their gas and that sort of thing. And I got to thinking I'm like, you know, wait a minute. There's nothing inherently wrong. With the guest Yes, the guest pitching agency is kind of helping that guest. But honestly, you know, in my opinion for the purpose of that show, you know, the more people more conversations I can have, the more people I can network with, the more people I can support, promote, do good in the world for you know, we recently just kind of had an internal discussion like, why are we being apprehensive here? Like we did guest booking agencies should honestly be our best friend because they're bringing super high quality people that we may potentially work with in some way we might need their services or, you know, they might, we might be able to introduce one another to somebody. And I think what's great about podcasting, Jeremy, is, it is such a brilliant first conversation. If you have a go giver, Bob Burg, I'm sure you know Go giver philosophy. So if we can lead in the relationship by saying, you know what we're going to promote you to 120,000 fans, we're going to do this for you. And you know what? It's, I just think it's a great way of doing business today. And I think moving forward, I just think it's absolutely brilliant. Again, not every podcast is going to fit that form. In fact, vast majority won't. But in our case, you know, we've got multiple podcasts. And you know, that one thoughtful entrepreneur is very specifically designed to just get us serving more people.

Well, and honestly, that's why like, with our business, you know, being a podcaster, myself, I focus so much on like, it has to be the right podcast and has to be the right person, because I feel like there's so many people out there, you know, whether it's a PR firm or whatever, that are just trying to push people on, oh, this is a big show. I need to get you on it. And it's just it's not married yet. But it because if the stories don't fit, and they don't match and the vibes don't match, then later it shouldn't. It shouldn't be something that happens. So I think sometimes there People that can get to pushing that way as well.

Yeah, you know, have you considered having a second podcast? That's just nothing but, you know, kind of the command your brand Podcast, where you interview everybody, just so you can kind of initiate more conversations with people. You know, you know, that. That may

be a good idea, but at the same time, I just don't know if it'd be interesting to make it.

Yeah, yeah. It's a lot of work. How much work is it to get on? Sorry, Jeremy, what was that? No, I was

gonna say even on my own show, I've dropped down to one interview a week and then one solo episode a week, just because I need to keep it interesting and high quality for myself too. So it's like, at the same time, I need to make sure I'm putting my attention on the right ways, you know?

Hmm. Do you think that most guests you and I talked about this before we hopped on the secure line here, but, and I had this I mean, I see this and and i think you do to most Entrepreneurs business brand, you know people who want to get their name out there. They want to get buzz. podcasting is amazing. However, I see this pretty consistently that most people way, way way, overvalue the visibility and they way, way way undervalue the authority, is that your observation as well,

I'm 100% in agreement with you there because I think people look at podcasting, because I'll say first and foremost, I feel like it's not just the podcasting problem. I feel like, people don't quite understand the differentiation between public relations and publicity and marketing, right, like, yeah, like, they have this really big confusion. And there's a lot of people think everything is marketing, which just isn't the case, right? Like, like PR is getting yourself out to the right people and getting known. That doesn't always mean it's going to turn into sales right away, but that positioning is so valuable. So I think people think All right, I'm going to get on this number. podcasters X number of listeners, I'm gonna get this many leads is going to make this many dollars for me. And sure you can look at it that way. But I think it's actually short sighted man because the positioning by being in the right podcast or being in the right publication or whatever those are things actually take your brand to the next level, you're actually building brand equity, like value in who your brand is and who you are, rather than just looking at, okay, I need another lead and another dollar need another whatever, like, sure, as a business owner, you have to think of those things. But if you want to go big, you have to be known in the right way, seeing the right way and position the right way. And then also know what to do with those things. There's so much value in either press or PR. And I like to say there's two parts to it. There's when you get the feature, and you get out to this new audience, but then there's also what you do with it with the audience that already knows you. Because if they see, hey, I was an Entrepreneur on Fire or I was in Forbes or I was an ink or they you know, see like what you have it you were in 2000 different media outlets. That's a big deal. And that positioning shows like hey, I'm somebody of authority, and I'm somebody that important in my space, and that third party, credibility is so important because when you say it about yourself, it just sounds like you're kind of being a jerk. But when somebody else says that about you, it does show that credibility and authority and I think sometimes people need to realize it's so important to build your authority. And actually, you're going to see your advertising convert better, you're going to see more opportunities come in, you're going to see a lot of other things happen because you spent the time and money on getting the right features to build your authority.

And what are some best practices Jeremy for that you advise? Okay, let's say you're working with a client and he said, Okay, well, you know, we got you on such and such a podcast and and you know, your your guests or your client, like in their mind, they might be thinking, Okay, jobs done, you know, I got my visibility. What do you recommend they do when that podcast episode goes live?

So there's a there's a few different things because one of one of the things that we focused on is making Making sure your email marketing to your own list in the right way because I think too many times we will send out an email. I was on the podcasts, end of email, and they're like, cool. Nobody's gonna listen to that podcast. Yeah, I was you need to tell. And it's it's even the way that social media content is going if you take a look at a lot of what I put out even on with the post, I put on social media, I'm telling stories with everything I write. So you need to be a really good storyteller. And you also need to learn the rules of the platforms. So we actually have a course we give all of our clients as well as we do webinars for our clients teaching a lot of this stuff. Like it. For example, if you're going to put a link on Facebook, Facebook's going to automatically crush that link because they want people to stay on the platform. Just like if you put a YouTube right, Facebook, Facebook's going to crush it because they want people to stay on the platform. So you need to get creative with how you story tell how you talk about it and how you send people to it. It may be hiding the link preview it may be putting the link in the first comment with a good story it you need. So you need to figure out how these different platforms work. And then even on LinkedIn like right now I feel like LinkedIn is The biggest opportunity out there to get attention agreed. And if you're not doing it, if you're not doing it and not even doing it in the right way, then you're missing out big time, Lincoln. So video driven, it's so long form content driven. And you have to remember to write this stuff, though it's mobile friendly. If you check out a lot of the way I write posts actually skip lines in between posts, because you're making it easier on their phone. So you need to figure out how you can use this stuff in a way rather than just saying, I was on a podcast, here's the link, because nobody's going to see it because the platform doesn't want people to see it. And also, even though it's not that interesting, so you need to look at how you can tell stories around it. And it's going to lead to people listening to an interview, but also it's going to lead to you building your authority, because you're going to see your audience grow because people love

that story. I get it. So and talk about your perspective in how someone can very specifically then lead us that activity. So the podcaster parents, the social media, ultimately, you know, what does a business owner I mean, ultimately, a business owner wants to make more money, they want to grow their business, they want to grow their input, impact and influence, that sort of thing. What is there anything else in terms of like connecting the dots in order to get that done? Other than just kind of share? I mean, they want people to consume the content, right? I mean, that's kind of that's, that's where it really happens. And I'll share a perspective on Jeremy that so in college, I studied fam I, you, you studied literature, I studied family science, you know, neither of us are using any of that stuff. Professionally, or again, no family science. Again, it's kind of one of those bachelor's it's just, it's it's a precursor to postgraduate work and you pretty much can't eat, you know, you can work at a restaurant, if you get out at the bachelor's level, which I did, but I got distracted with the whole internet thing. But one thing I did learn, I actually did a lot of research And I did a presentation on this on quality versus quantity time. And a lot of people will use that in parenting. And they say, Well, I don't spend a lot of time with my kids, but when I do, it's high quality. And the literature actually shows that, you know, time together is really important. I don't want to guilt anybody, but it's really important to just spend time together even if it's just like running to the hardware store together. You know, believe it or not, Jeremy, you probably have similar experiences. Like it's some of that mundane stuff. I actually have some of the best memories of being with my dad, you know, going to the hardware store together. You know, it's we're not you know, I don't know if he would have considered that quality time, but I sure did as a kid. Right.

Right. So I agree with you. And it's it's because you need to learn how to tell stories that people can connect with and people should connect with from the most basic thing Man like that it's kind of funny. It's it's people learn how to connect with the most basic thing. So it's learning how to tell a story because I feel like too many times, especially in this influencer space, I was just talking with a gentleman not too long ago named Robert Sysco, about this, that they, especially in the influencer space, they do things that just aren't real people. Like they tell stories about their jet and their, their body. And they have pictures of all this different stuff. And it's like, that doesn't communicate, right, like people don't stand that, like telling stories like what you're talking about and positioning in them in such a way to bring people back to this media you're sharing is something that's actually going to communicate and I think that's step one that a lot of people are missing is they're putting out content that's not communicating. So even if they were interested in seeing this podcast interview, or there's media piece or whatever, they're never going to get to it. So you have to figure out how to make that human connection first.

You know, you know one thing I learned most recently, I've spoken Social Media Marketing World and which I love that conference. And there was one presentation that that really struck me this year. And that is, you know, it's like you've got the, you know, the attractive personality attractive character and that can attract people to you, you know, people like, Hey, you know, Jeremy's created some success. Jeremy's got this, Jeremy does that he has success, so I want to check them out. But if you don't share your imperfections and your vulnerabilities on a regular basis, I think people kind of tune out. At least that was it was kind of a challenge for me because I felt like well, if I share my imperfections, my vulnerabilities, then people aren't going to trust me as much. So, you know, it's been it's been a real challenge for me to share my imperfections on a regular basis. But you know, I can totally, totally see a difference in my social media engagement when I've made a very conscious effort to let people know, listen, I'm an insecure Dude, you know, I've got you know, I get it. get sad, I get anxiety, I fail. And here's my latest failure. But I learned from this stuff, and what are your observations? What do you what are your feelings on that?

It's It's interesting, because I feel like those are the those are the stories that when I tell them, I get the most interesting because people realize, Oh, you know, he's not perfect or it's not always perfect. It's not always sunshine and rainbows because, like I said, that doesn't communicate to people, they need to have reality on what you're talking about. And if they don't, it's right over their heads and why why does it matter other than what then you tell it trying to tell people how cool you are, like you have to really be willing to be open. But it's also a balance too, because I see people that are out there that are like, I'm so open and they're giving out more information than like it's actually comfortable for me to read. So you have to kind of know that balance on what's open enough to show somebody the reality of where you currently are or what you're currently doing business or how things always go versus telling way too much versus Hey, Check this out. I rented an airplane for this photo and we are actually out on the runway. And I didn't tell you it's rented but I'm not going to tell you in my copy, but check out my cool airplane that I don't own. There's there's actually a service, not that they're these private jets that are out there and not in use, you can actually rent them by the hour to get your photo taken by

you know how you know what would be so great though is if someone actually did the post and said, I rented this airport or this airplane, I don't own it. I'm I'm trying to impress you right now. Like if they were like that honest and authentic. I'd be like, you know what, that is actually really cool. I like you for even though you spent the money on this thing. I love that you're being so damn honest with me. That's so cool.

I feel like JP Sears would do that. I'm just waiting for that one now.

Yeah, yeah, for real for real. Jeremy another thing that that I wanted to bring up is it just in terms of the power of podcasting and this gets to my earlier point of time together and how valuable that is. video, it's it's really challenging to hold someone's attention for, say, you know, maybe more than like a 10 minutes, right? It's really challenging. It has to be really, really good stuff. Why? Because it's so demanding of, of the viewers, senses, it requires everything, all of their attention. And so as a result, you don't get to spend as much time together. Although, you know, when you do you know that that five to eight minutes, wherever it is, I mean, it is really impactful. But podcasting, you're getting to my earlier point to have quantity time versus quality time is that it through a podcast, it's nothing to have someone's attention even while they're driving. You know, they're listening in for 30 minutes. It's that's pretty much the norm for podcasts. And so when you are offering this to your potential clients or your clients, you're like, Look, you know, if you can spend 30 minutes with someone that's in your sales pipeline, and they can see you respected and put in the interview chair as a subject and treated like a subject matter expert, do you think that that's a valuable impression? That is it? That is just an unequivocal Yes. I don't know if that's a word by the way. I think it's unequivocal unequivocal that's a word you're you've got the Masters maybe in your literature guy, maybe, you know,

I think it's a word man. Like it's people make them up all the time. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you know, we used to have Texas Governor Rick Perry that, you know, said hey, you can always find me on Twitter. So you know,

it is I just looked it up unequivocably and equip unequivocably Wow, I need to work on my vocabulary. I'm, you know, I'm supposedly I'm a journalist. Still new things I'm learning every day. All right, so yeah, so talk about, you know, in terms of like someone being a guest on a podcast, and I don't mean to get too mad OB Well, I mean this isn't a podcast but if it were a podcast you know again time you know being being put in that subject matter expert light and then being able to have your audience See you in that light for such a length of time. That is a powerful impression.

You want to talk about meta man you want to buy a course on how to buy it make a course for coaches on how to coach coaches anyway. It is really valuable and I think that's what people don't think about. And it doesn't even always matter who's interviewing you just the fact that you're interviewed and you're the expert in that area. And because there's there's I was approached by a company last year that they wanted to charge me seventh, I think I actually talk to you about this. They wanted to charge me $7,000 to conduct a mock in studio interview. I'm like, are you kidding me, I've been on TV where they've actually asked me to come there. And it didn't cost me anything. But there are an area of people that will pay for that. Because when you are being interviewed in high quality audio, high quality video, whatever it may be, it makes you look like more of an opinion leader because just the fact that you're being interviewed, makes you look good. Now, if it's even in an quality place, like if it's on the right podcast on the right publication, it looks even better. And I think that's what people have to understand is having that level of authority in what you do can change the game in your business. Because if the other people that are in your niche, aren't doing interviews aren't being interviewed, you have a huge leg up. And the better part about it is if they even know how, if you even know how to use that stuff better than they do if they are doing it in terms of like how you're repurposing it, then you know, you're really going to win

And what do you say to guests that say, I want to be on fill in the blank, like whatever the top like, I want to be a Gary V's podcast. And they're like, and and Gosh, darn it, I'm important enough that I think I should be on that podcast. And like, that's all they really care about, like, how do you coach them on that?

So the first thing we say is yes, we can definitely pitch that for you. We can't guarantee it because he's like very particular and certain things and it's not a match, match. It doesn't say anything negative about you. But then the other part is people have to understand nicking down is so valuable because let's say that you are seen by an opinion leader in your niche that's going to make you more money. Whereas going on Gary Vee with a bunch of people that don't really care about you, and may not be in your niche, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't make you money. So I think sometimes vanity things you have to figure out how to talk to them in the right way to understand sure visibility is great, but it's just for visibility or vanity and wanting that down in the right way and get them to understand Hey, nitpicking is so much more valuable. I think people can really win that way.

But what do you think of the value? Let's say from a from a visibility, which which would you rather have an appearance on a show that has 10,000 listeners, if I'm baby brand new, like I've never been interviewed on podcast before, would you rather them go on one show with 10,000 listeners or 10 shows with 1000 listeners each,

say 10 shows with 1000 listeners each and especially if you're brand new, like you have to get better at actually being interviewed. You establish a little bit of your own credibility because here's the thing, if you reach out to that big show without ever being on those 10, smaller shows, you're not going to get it. You have a portfolio of pressing all set, have the experience to be able to do it. Because I think so many times people don't understand it, like oh, look what I've done in my business. I should just be on the show. And it's like, it's like, sure I understand what you're saying. But in the media, people don't really know You are so you have to take the time to build a portfolio, whether it's something I like to tell people, my favorite thing to do is called the small pond strategy. Find the small group that cares about you and your local community or your local area or whatever, and promote to that group. And it's a great place to get started. But you have to build a portfolio and also become more media friendly before you can reach out to a lot of bigger stuff. And honestly, the stuff that's more the stuff at smaller will probably make you more money because it's probably more engaged. I think so many times people just want to go big and it doesn't always make you money.


yeah. So there, I mean, there's, you know, one thing we talked about is like, there's media you do for authority, then there's media you do for visibility, and, and they both have their purpose and it kind of depends on you know, where you are in business. What do you need, where you make your money, you know, what are your goals, that sort of thing? Do you find yourself just kind of, I guess, guiding when, let's say a client has certain expectations of where they want to go And you're like, Did you find yourself teaching much about kind of audience selection or kind of show selection?

So, so that kind of depends, right? Like most of the time, Yes, I do. But you do get some people to that also aren't willing to be taught if you know what I mean. So somebody first and foremost, that's willing to be taught about that. But once they get that, they understand it, they truly grasp it. Those are the ones that are really successful because they truly get how media works. So I think if you do get people that just they aren't willing to be taught and it does happen, and and it's going to be harder for everybody involved, because you have to just understand how the media works and how, how you're able to leverage it and use it the right way. Now,

what do you think about just again, this is apples and so apples and oranges here, but what do you think about in terms of visibility, the ROI from paid advertising versus You know, kind of working on your PR, working on your visibility by serving audiences on stages as it were,

I kind of see that as twofold, right? Because you need to be doing both of them. Because when you're you're not doing PR and not you're not going to have the the right positioning where you're all your other stuff you're doing is actually going to cost you more money because nobody knows who you are. There's, there's there's parts of that where you're actually going to build relationships with people that find you in these different media. And those are going to become your evangelists like people that talk about you to other people in a positive fashion. But they need to be going within tandem, right? Like you create the PR piece or you get the attention or whatever. And they use that in all of your other marketing. So they converts better, because I think too many are like, all right, I can get you blah, and they have no third party credibility, no third party validation, and they wonder why they spent thousands and thousands of dollars on Facebook ads and it hasn't made them any money. So you have to be doing both parts of this Josh and you know, to really Make it convert for you. I think too many times people like I'm just going to do PR cool. I'm just going to do marketing. You can't you gotta do both and figure out how they're gonna work together.

You know?

I, I do see a lot of people, they aspire for the PR, but I don't see a lot of activity in that they just I think there's a lot of hope and wish, hoping and wishing. And there's not, you know, it's kind of like when I talk about it, and I just think there's a lack of skill set with a to you know, what, when I when I speak on this subject, and I do this experiment, and I say, okay, for the next 10 minutes, I want you guys to do PR stuff go and then I let them sweat for a while. And there's okay i'm not i'm not gonna make you do that. But let me ask you like, what were you going to do? Like people don't have a clue. They don't know I was going to start emailing influencers I was gonna start emailing journalists and and start selling and pitching my stuff. And it's like, the rules of engagement are different. I you know, is how do you Teach that concept.

Well, I think the interesting thing about it too, though is is so many people don't know the basics, right? Like they don't know what it is they don't know how to set their website up and have a lot of it written in third person so that it's not being written just from your voice. So it's, it's, it's, I find so many times when, like, I do a lot of talks for small business owners here in Jersey and I find so many times my intention is to get into talking about podcasts and talking about media but I find that they don't know the early stuff so it takes a long time to get to the other stuff I really want to talk about like they they just they don't know a lot of this positioning a lot of things like that in order to how to do it the right way. So I actually find myself talking about like, what is a media page? What is content curation? You know, what is how, how do you find media, what's a press release? Like there's so many different things that I find myself doing? Because they want all this other stuff? But they don't have the base or even the know how on like, how to use it and I just find that those PR basics were a lot of how I I got my early attention. And yeah, those in place man, like, you can do so much of what you're doing. But if you just don't know, it seems really hard man and even if you hire somebody and you don't know you can get taken for a ride because you don't know, you know,

yeah. How important is you know, you've talked about like having a press kit and that sort of thing. Come on. Is that stuff really important? Can't you just hire someone to just pitch and sell you without without all that stuff?

No, I don't believe so. No, like you need that stuff. Like you need that stuff. Because it shows that you took the time you care you understand. The interesting thing about this in the PR world is I feel like a lot of people like feel it and this is weird, but if you know the rules of engagement, it's fine a lot of people feel like there's a certain way that PR is supposed to be played as a game. So if you know the rules right in the right fashion, you're actually gonna have more success as well. But you do need those certain things because it shows your credible, it a nice photo in your media kit says so much that you took the care and the time and whatever to do that it's so to me Me, it's you're making your life 100 times harder if you're saying I want to go get media and you're not going to worry about a media kit, or a press kit, or a speaker or speaker one pager or having a great media on your site. Yeah, like, you're just making your life so much easier man, like, and yeah. And in terms of like trying to get the right PR, they're not going to want to feature if it doesn't look like you've done anything before. Because experts have something to say. And people are saying things about experts. You know what I mean? Yeah,

you know, it's kind of like, if you're a speaker, and you refuse to have a speaker kit on your website, I mean, that's fine. You don't have to have one but you're just going to get a whole lot less speaking gigs, you're gonna you're not gonna be able to charge as much money it's optional, but you know, you can decide how hard you want to make this so I you know, it's like that that groundwork is I agree with you is so critical. Jeremy what is something that marketers do that really annoy you? So maybe something you see on social media and it's like a

I don't know if it's marketers as Much as its people that once again don't understand the media game and like I want to buy my way into for sure I want to buy my way in, like, how much do I have to pay to get that? Well, there's groundwork and there's finding the right people and the right story and the right way to put it. So I think that and I guess, okay to bring it back around, there's people that actually tried to sell the service like that. So I think in my head to look ahead to look at it like that. That's what I mean is there they're trying to, like, sell PR placements, which that's just not the way it's done. And if those publications knew about it, they wouldn't run the article if they found somebody was making money there. That wasn't the publication.

Yeah. Yeah, that you know, the pay to play I one thing I don't like and I got myself in trouble the first year I spoke in Social Media Marketing World, because I really bashed the PR industry on this. Oh, you want to talk to Susie journalist over there, huh? Well, tell you what, why don't you give me $4,000 and I'll make an introduction. And then that's all that went into that and You know that I just think it's such a dying breed because the quote unquote Suzy journalist is on Twitter. And and it's not like you can't talk to her. You know, it's like you can

I always see you talking about which is so true is people just are not using Twitter correctly because you can get so much out of it in terms of PR.

Yeah. Crazy. So we're talking about Twitter and LinkedIn. And honestly, like I the opportunity there if you if you just learn a little bit of best practices there, there's so much opportunity there. I'll be honest, like, Jeremy, I have I'm horrible at Facebook ads. I've never had success with it. And I'm not saying it doesn't work for it. Obviously it works for other people, but man in the b2b world. I mean, I just can't come close to anything in terms of the success that we get not with paid advertising, but just using the platform of Twitter and LinkedIn.

Yeah, no, it's 100% man like, like this There is so much opportunity there if you know what to do with it. But it's interesting because most people won't take the time to learn it. And there's a lot of platform doesn't work well in to learn the rules of engagement before you go out there and try and do things.

Now. So I have spent now I'm just doing the calculations here. $44,258 for my, I guess, like $807 a minute for this secure military line. Jeremy, I think I hit my budget, but worth every penny, my friend I've got, I've got a books worth of notes here. And now the task is to in Napoleon Hill fashion, put this out in a Think and Grow influence project. So thank you so much, man. I really thank you for the time and really, really great conversation. Really great information.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me today, man. Awesome.

Thanks. me.

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